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Thread: New subclade of L2 on YFull's haplotree

  1. #1
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    New subclade of L2 on YFull's haplotree

    YFull's latest haplotree shows a new direct subclade of L2 called R-FGC11577. Its two known members, one Ukrainian and the other British, have an estimated TMRCA of 3000 years ago, according to YFull.

    My understanding is that both men have 9 at DYS455. Another man, of Czech ancestry, also has DYS455 = 9 and was classified as R-L2* by the R1b-M343 SNP Pack.
    Last edited by lgmayka; 01-11-2016 at 04:03 AM.

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  3. #2
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    The British member would be me.

    The Ukrainian member [edit] matches 12 of my SNPs (FGC11577, FGC11586, FGC11587, FGC11594, FGC11595, FGC11596, FGC11597, FGC11599, FGC11606, FGC11614, FGC11615 and FGC11618) and has a value of 9 at DYS455.

    Kit number 133147 (Prague, Czech Republic) also matches DYS455=9.

    FTDNA member Thomas Richard Fowler (no kit number I can find, but shown as a P-25 terminal) shares the DYS455=9 marker as well. (He also shares our 'unique' DYS388-15 value; our genetic distance is just 2.)

    So that's four of us now, which is encouraging.
    Last edited by DMXX; 05-29-2020 at 11:20 PM. Reason: per member request, edited out
    Paternal: R- L2-FGC11577; William Fowler b. 1580, Wiltshire, England

    Maternal: H2a2a1; Ann Littlechild, b. 1586, Essex, England; d. 1612, Charles, Maryland

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  5. #3
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Fowler View Post
    The British member would be me.

    The Ukrainian member (edit) matches 12 of my SNPs (FGC11577, FGC11586, FGC11587, FGC11594, FGC11595, FGC11596, FGC11597, FGC11599, FGC11606, FGC11614, FGC11615 and FGC11618) and has a value of 9 at DYS455.

    Kit number 133147 (Prague, Czech Republic) also matches DYS455=9.

    FTDNA member Thomas Richard Fowler (no kit number I can find, but shown as a P-25 terminal) shares the DYS455=9 marker as well. (He also shares our 'unique' DYS388-15 value; our genetic distance is just 2.)

    So that's four of us now, which is encouraging.


    Hello Tom,
    I'm very happy for you.
    Your results affecting me and then I'll let me ask a few questions:
    1) it seems to me to remind that you under test with Full Genomes. It is true?
    2) Even Kordonowy was subjected to tests that Full Genomes run? (or BigY)
    3) The other samples that you have mentioned will be subject to a specific test? (Full Genomes, Bigy, or otherwise), or you have considered only the presence of DYS455 = 9?


    Good luck for the future
    Last edited by DMXX; 05-29-2020 at 11:20 PM. Reason: per member req

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  7. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by Acque agitate View Post
    Hello Tom,
    I'm very happy for you.
    Your results affecting me and then I'll let me ask a few questions:
    1) it seems to me to remind that you under test with Full Genomes. It is true?
    2) Even [edit] was subjected to tests that Full Genomes run? (or BigY)
    3) The other samples that you have mentioned will be subject to a specific test? (Full Genomes, Bigy, or otherwise), or you have considered only the presence of DYS455 = 9?


    Good luck for the future
    1. Yes, I tested with Full Genomes Corporation.
    2. Since [edit] matched 12 of my “private” SNPs, I would assume they tested with FGC, but that would need to be confirmed with Richard Rocca. He’s the one who made me aware of the matches. (Thanks again Rich.)
    3. Kit 133147 is listed as U152>L2** and shares the ‘unique’ DYS455=9. To the best of my knowledge, that individual has not tested with FGC or Big Y. In this case, I’ve only considered the presence of DYS455=9.
    4. FTDNA member Thomas Richard Fowler (P-25 terminal – an older test result?) also shares the DYS455=9 value. I have tried to contact him on several occasions to request he consider FGC or Big Y testing, but the email addresses provided no longer function. Which is a shame – as noted, our genetic distance is only 2 and he not only matches at DYS455 but also carries our ‘statistically insignificant” 15 at DYS388 (none of the others do – [edit] is a 13 and 133147 is an 11).
    Last edited by DMXX; 05-29-2020 at 11:26 PM. Reason: per member req
    Paternal: R- L2-FGC11577; William Fowler b. 1580, Wiltshire, England

    Maternal: H2a2a1; Ann Littlechild, b. 1586, Essex, England; d. 1612, Charles, Maryland

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  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Fowler View Post
    Since [edit] matched 12 of my “private” SNPs, I would assume they tested with FGC, but that would need to be confirmed with Richard Rocca.
    #N46909 actually took FTDNA's Big Y test.
    Quote Originally Posted by Tom Fowler View Post
    Kit 133147 is listed as U152>L2** and shares the ‘unique’ DYS455=9. To the best of my knowledge, that individual has not tested with FGC or Big Y.
    #133147 took the R1b Backbone SNP Pack. I have "reserved" a $425 Big Y test on his account, but he himself is not interested in spending any more money. Now if someone else were willing to contribute most of the cost...
    Last edited by DMXX; 05-29-2020 at 11:26 PM. Reason: per member req

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  11. #6
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    Everything becomes more interesting.
    Tom, if you did the test with Full Genomes this means that probably you have found about 50-54 Snp private.
    If [edit] took the test with BigY he might have found less Snp private (I do not know with certainty the average for the samples R1b-L2+, it seems to me, however, to remember about 25-35 Snp; Richard certainly correct me).
    So the correspondence between you and [edit] might screw be much more extensive than that which can be seen today (12 Snp).
    Personally I think it probable that this correspondence is much more extensive. This is because, comparing your STR with those of [edit] , it is seen that the coincidence is much higher than that simple that you mentioned (only DYS455 = 9).
    For now enjoy this moment ... I envy you very much
    Last edited by DMXX; 05-29-2020 at 11:27 PM. Reason: per member req

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  13. #7
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    It would be interesting to see more results for #133147. [edit] and recently took the Big-Y through ftdna as opposed to Full Genomes. DYS455=9 has always been a unique marker for me with very few matches. I believe there was a Kipchak/Cuman fellow from Kazakhstan who was U-152+ with DYS455=9, but he ended up being somewhat genetically distant after some further testing (I forget as that was a long time ago).

    The vast majority of my matches span the length and breadth of Europe with many in the British Isles, but also Germany, Switzerland, Italy, Poland, the Czech Republic, etc. [edit] I have relatives who have provided me with a lot of birth records from churches in the area. There were a lot of Kordonowys in the area then. Kostiantyn (Gust) came over with 2 brothers, and was joined by another later, and they were both Ukrainian Greek Catholic (eastern rite Catholic) as well as Greek Orthodox. In North Dakota where they settled, they had the 2 different churches and cemeteries right by each other. The only thing exotic on my 23andme ancestry test is .1% NE Asian, but I'm told that's common in people from Slavic areas, and 1.6% Italian. I can't prove it, but I have a hunch the Italian ancestry may come from my mother's side of the family, which is 50% English and 50% Danish. My grandfather and grandmother met during WWII at a dance hall in England. My English grandmother's family is from Bristol, and she grew up in Oxford. It's only a theory, but I'm wondering if this 1.6% could come from a Roman connection in Britain. Sorry to be so long winded here. Just thought I'd pipe in.

    I hear our new subclade is rather exciting! I'm eager to learn more. Thank you. [edit]
    Last edited by DMXX; 05-29-2020 at 11:27 PM. Reason: per member req

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    Here is my 23andme ancestry composition:

    [edit]
    Last edited by DMXX; 05-29-2020 at 11:28 PM. Reason: member req

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    [edit]
    Last edited by DMXX; 05-29-2020 at 11:28 PM. Reason: per member req

  18. #10
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    Can somebody tell me how to edit this thread??

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