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Thread: Y40 information

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arame View Post
    Can be this branch related to Nuristani languages?
    Interesting question. Nuristani seem to be rich in R1a but we know nothing about their subclades yet. Y40 seems to be frequent among Burusho who live not so far away. My feeling is that Nuristani are mainly Z2124 with some Y40 and L657 because Kalash are also Z2124 and Nuristani heavily influenced Kalash. Today they look like an ancient relic population, which lives since the Bronze Age in Nuristan, but actually we dont know where they lived 2000 or 3000 years ago. The region experienced many partial population replacements and movements in the last 4000 years. Nuristani languages represent a third branch of Indo-Iranian languages but they seem to share more linguistic feautures with Iranic languages.

    Nuristânis constitute a linguistic group as well as a geographic one. Within the Indo-European linguistic family the Nuristâni languages form a third sub-group of the Indo-Iranian group, alongside the Iranian and Indo-Âryan sub-groups. Speakers of the precursors of the Nuristâni languages appear to have been on the outer edge of the wave of Âryan expansion that placed the Iranian-speaking peoples in their present locations. These proto-Nuristânis participated in most of the processes that differentiated the speech of the early Âryas (Indo-Iranians) from that of other Indo-Europeans, but they did not participate with the Âryas in the backing of ancient *s after *u. They later assimilated the strongly fronted accent of the Iranian speakers, which precluded the whispery-voicing of the earlier consonants *bh, *dh, and *gh, and they adopted the characteristic Iranian dentalizing of ancient palatalized *k and *g to *ć and *ź. But they did not participate in the later spirantizing and deaffrication processes that characterize the consonant systems of the recorded Iranian languages. Having been initially out of range of the Indo-Âryan side of the Âryan expansion, the proto-Nuristânis subsequently entered the Indo-Âryan sphere and participated in many of the Middle Indo-Âryan changes that characterize the Northwestern Indo-Âryan languages, such as the loss of intervocalic stop consonants and the simplification of intervocalic consonant clusters. In the millennium since the Nuristânis entered Nuristân, those in northern Nuristân have assimilated processes from the neighboring Iranian languages across the Hindu Kush, while those in southern Nuristân have remained closer to the Indo-Âryan languages to the south (see the linguistic map). Since the Afghân conquest of Nuristân, Nuristânis have been assimilating thousands of "Islamic" words of Arab and Persian origin into their lexicons, to the detriment of many ancient traditional terms. Further details appear here
    History: Earlier investigators surmised that the ancestors of the Nuristânis were the first Indo-Europeans to enter the region of the Hindu Kush from Central Asia, and as later Indo-Âryas followed, the early Nuristânis were gradually pushed back into their present homes.1 These investigators were unaware of the oral traditions of most Nuristâni groups that placed them around the region of Kâma, at the northeast side of the confluence of the Kâbul and Kunar Rivers, until a thousand years ago.2 According to such traditions, they came from Kandahâr to Kâbul to Kâpisa to Kâma, being pushed by the onslaught of Islâm. Such accounts agree with the linguistic scenario sketched above, which posits that the Nuristânis were earlier on the edge of the Iranian-speaking world and only later encountered the Indo-Âryan sphere of influence. By their own account the Nuristânis were late arrivals in the region.
    Last edited by Coldmountains; 05-21-2017 at 08:41 PM.

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  3. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    Interesting question. Nuristani seem to be rich in R1a but we know nothing about their subclades yet. Y40 seems to be frequent among Burusho who live not so far away. My feeling is that Nuristani are mainly Z2124 with some Y40 and L657 because Kalash are also Z2124 and Nuristani heavily influenced Kalash. Today they look like an ancient relic population, which lives since the Bronze Age in Nuristan, but actually we dont know where they lived 2000 or 3000 years ago. The region experienced many partial population replacements and movements in the last 4000 years. Nuristani languages represent a third branch of Indo-Iranian languages but they seem to share more linguistic feautures with Iranic languages.
    Do we not have any Nuristanis sampled?
    “Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan”.

    Four things are the gift of Multan: Dusty winds, hot seasons, beggars and graveyards.




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    Quote Originally Posted by khanabadoshi View Post
    Do we not have any Nuristanis sampled?
    They tested 5 Nuristani (3x R1a) here http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0034288. I dont know of any other Nuristani dna results and i dont have much hope we will get much more in the near future. It would be cool if someone could find someone of Nuristani origin living in the West who would do some snp/str testing on YSEQ or ftdna.

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    Last edited by Coldmountains; 05-21-2017 at 09:06 PM.

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    The only Nuristani data we have is from Haber et al. 2012. But it's Y-STR's, not Y-SNP's.

    That being said, there's a GD=4-5 between all three Nuristani R1a1a's, across both slow and fast mutating STR sites. They look like unrelated branches to me.
    Last edited by DMXX; 05-21-2017 at 09:13 PM. Reason: Updated post; me and CM were in an involuntary race

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  9. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Coldmountains View Post
    They tested 5 Nuristani (3x R1a) here http://journals.plos.org/plosone/art...l.pone.0034288. I dont know of any other Nuristani dna results and i dont have much hope we will get much more in the near future. It would be cool if someone could find someone of Nuristani origin living in the West who would do some snp/str testing on YSEQ or ftdna.

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    Well if anyone knows a Nuristani, I'll send a kit. Surprising that the Kalash and Burusho have been tested so much and everyone around them -- the Nuristanis, Kho, Shina -- so little. I contacted a gentleman who has around 20 samples of people from the Northern Areas of Pakistan, ie. Shina, Kho, Kalash, Burusho, he may have some Kohistanis and others as well, but he has only uploaded a few to Gedmatch. He is in some tussle with FTDNA regarding the pricing of testing the remaining samples. I should keep bothering him LOL. I don't know if he has any Afghan samples.
    Last edited by khanabadoshi; 05-22-2017 at 01:35 AM.
    “Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan”.

    Four things are the gift of Multan: Dusty winds, hot seasons, beggars and graveyards.




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