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Thread: Z283(xZ282) found from Poland to Switzerland to England

  1. #1
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    Z283(xZ282) found from Poland to Switzerland to England

    Kit 424729 of Poland has tested Z283+ Z282- . But according to the Y-SNPs page of the R1a Project, these project members have also tested Z283+ Z282- .
    374874 of Switzerland
    226541 of Germany
    360638 of Germany
    199628 of England
    N50360 of England
    160791
    293167
    N49600
    Ancestral countries are taken from the Y-STRs page of that same project.

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  3. #2
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    I believe these samples are crucial to understanding R1a's development. They have a relatively recent TMRCA. What is the common geographical or ethnic factor about them?

    I cannot find detailed data for 424729, nor for N50360 (who, being called Bambrook, is presumably a fairly recent relative of 199628's Benbrook - English).
    German 266541, 360638, 293167 and N49600 are all members of the same family - Feist.
    Swiss 374874 is a Myers. 160971 is a Ledwill (English).

    Are they all of ancient European (most likely Germanic) origin? Or are they of ancient Middle Eastern origin (Jewish descent)? The names Feist and Myers are both associated with the Ashkenazi community - and some Swiss Myers were also identified as Anabaptists (possibly descended from Jewish converts?).

    If we could confidently answer this question, I believe R1a's entire developmental route would become much clearer. Does anyone have any more information on this?

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    YFull's R-Z283 haplotree displays only one clade outside Z282, namely R-YP4758. The next version of the tree should give a TMRCA estimate for this clade.

    Of course, we don't know whether all known Z283xZ282 men belong to R-YP4758. We need more Big Y testing.

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  7. #4
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    The original sample is probably Feist, as the source is listed as FTDNA and it is from Germany. Given the number of SNPs for this sample and the STR variances between the FTDNA samples, my guess is that all of these samples would also be YP4758. The question is - do they derive from a Middle Eastern or a European MRCA?

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  9. #5
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    South Wales
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    Mostly Welsh,+ flags
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    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a- Z283 - Y128147
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    J2a1a1a

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    Quote Originally Posted by lgmayka View Post
    YFull's R-Z283 haplotree displays only one clade outside Z282, namely R-YP4758. The next version of the tree should give a TMRCA estimate for this clade.

    Of course, we don't know whether all known Z283xZ282 men belong to R-YP4758. We need more Big Y testing.
    Coming soon
    Gedmatch
    Kit Num: M129412, QA3736362
    23andme
    Hidden Content
    LivingDNA
    Hidden Content

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     JohnHowellsTyrfro (08-19-2017),  lgmayka (08-20-2017),  Volat (08-26-2017)

  11. #6
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    South East Wales UK
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    Y-DNA (P)
    U106 Z326 R-BY27310
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    J1c1b2a

    United Kingdom Wales
    Reminds me a bit of RU106 Z326 - it's everywhere, from Scandinavia to Britain, Germany, Poland, Finland Russia, Hungary, Italy etc. etc. John
    Last edited by JohnHowellsTyrfro; 08-19-2017 at 12:43 PM. Reason: afterthought

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  13. #7
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    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a-L1029>Y133383
    mtDNA (M)
    H11a2*-146+
    Y-DNA (M)
    J2b-L283>PH1751
    mtDNA (P)
    T1a1I

    Albania Kosovo Macedonia United States of America Sweden Greece
    z283 here, negative downstream according to livingDNA. Yelite is undergoing sequencing. Not too long until I have a result. From Albania.

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  15. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dibran View Post
    z283 here, negative downstream according to livingDNA. Yelite is undergoing sequencing. Not too long until I have a result. From Albania.
    Should be interesting what it shows, I’m in a similar position to you and waiting for my Big Y results, also so far Negative downstream of RZ283.
    Can you then upload them to YFull?

    Please post your results,
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    Kit Num: M129412, QA3736362
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  17. #9
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    J2b-L283>PH1751
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    Albania Kosovo Macedonia United States of America Sweden Greece
    Quote Originally Posted by [email protected] View Post
    Should be interesting what it shows, I’m in a similar position to you and waiting for my Big Y results, also so far Negative downstream of RZ283.
    Can you then upload them to YFull?

    Please post your results,
    Yea, once I get my results I will upload to Yfull, and alert Michal. Should be interesting to see what we learn. Some oral history claims we may possibly come from a Condottieri from Italy. Before it was common to employ Italians, I understand a good number of Condottieri were employed from Germany Scandinavia and England. If the oral history is true, and we come from a foreign Condottieri employed by the King of Albania, then its possible thats how Z283 made its way there if its really negative for the downstream clades.

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  19. #10
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    Hello. I've just registered with this forum because I stumbled across your post in an internet search. I'm an experienced genealogist and interested in using Y-chromosome analysis to help my research into the origins of my unusual surname (Benbrook). However, my knowledge of genetics is at an elementary level.
    The sample 199628 belongs to me, and N50360 shares all but 4 of my markers in a 67 marker test and thus we probably have a genealogically relevant common ancestor. I live in England and have an unbroken paternal line through 9 generations in London, England. N50360 lives in the US, but can document his ancestry back to Northamptonshire, England. He also shares my surname (the spelling often varies, as you suggested). So it's probable that my ancestors moved to London from somewhere near Northamptonshire.
    My understanding from this thread is that N50360 and I belong to a sub-clade that requires more investigation. A recent email from the R1a project seems to point me towards a Big Y test, but I'm not sure I'm prepared for that level of expense; is there an alternative that would help, but wouldn't cost as much?

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