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Thread: Echoes of the East-African Slave Trade - Distant Diasporic Matches - IBS or IBD?

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    United Kingdom Netherlands Mauritius Madagascar India China Qing Dynasty
    This is what mum got on K8 - we have papertrail for slaves from Madagascar and Mozambique in Mauritius through my mother's father. I take it the Western Semitic is taking in all her European and Asian.

    # Population Percent
    1 Western_Semitic 69.94
    2 W_Benue_Congo 7.79
    3 Nilo_Saharan 6.79
    4 E_Benue_Congo 6.73
    5 Omotic 5.22
    6 Eastern_HG 3.53
    Ethnogene: 51.4% NW European, 21.6% W European, 10.1% Southeastern African, 9.5% Southeast Asian, 4.4% South Asian, 2% Scandinavian, 1% East African
    Papertrail @ 2xggrandparents: 37.5% London, 25% Dorset, 25% Mauritius, 6.25% Netherlands, 6.25% Hampshire

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    Quote Originally Posted by NiloSaharan View Post
    Amazing detail Felipe! It'll take me some time to digest all the information

    I'm amazed by some of the matches for your East-African participants (Azerbaijan, Turkey...)
    Thanks! I have seen such West Asian matches being reported for Central Africans as well as East Africans also on Ancestry. I imagine any African lineage due to either slave trade or also voluntary migrations must usually be very diluted in those parts and only showing up for selected persons (a small Afro-Turkish community does still exist). But it does seem to be corroborated by these matching patterns.


    Quote Originally Posted by NiloSaharan View Post
    The high match strength for the Malagasy might be due to it's more recent ties to the slave trade
    The high match strength for my 2 Malagasy samples on 23andme is a fascinating outcome indeed. From what i've seen on Ancestry (i'm sharing with a couple of Malagasy profiles there as well) I can already say this outcome does not seem to be an anomaly. The ironic thing is that given documented slave trade records the majority of Malagasy captives actually arrived in some of the earliest time periods (late 1600's/early 1700's). And going by other historical clues I suspect that these early arriving captives would have been most influential within the AA genepool (due to founder effect and dispersal from Virginia into the deep South by way of the Domestic Slave Trade).

    Although like you rightfully pointed out also in the 1800's another batch of Southeast African captives arrived. Possibly the extent of which may have been underestimated. However it seems this time it was more so Mozambicans than Malagasy captives being involved (see this link for a complete overview of documented voyages). Also in absolute numbers it could not have amounted to a sizeable input. The total number of Malagasy captives being estimated to have been under 7,600. The domestic slave trade being a much larger source for the USA to satisfy the demand for slave labour after Abolition in 1808. While this later wave of Southeast African slave trade was heading toward Brazil principally, followed by the Spanish Americas. I have also read about some voluntary migrations of Malagasy sailors and spouses to the USA in the late 1800's. But again the numbers would have been minimal. See this page for more charts & references:

    Southeast African Slave Trade according to slavevoyages.com




    Hopefully more research will be done on these matching patterns between Malagasy and African Americans to obtain more clarification. What I found striking is the minor European admixture (1.4% and 0.3%) present in both Malagasy profiles on 23andme. I'm curious to know to which extent such European admixture (even if minimal) might impact the number of matches in a database which is inherently biased towards picking up IBD segments based on European DNA. Then again I suspect this factor will not be all-explaining or even prevailing because when the CoA tool was still available I was able to verify myself for a couple of USA matches that their shared segments were either African or Asian in chromosome view.





    Quote Originally Posted by NiloSaharan View Post
    Then again, I guess the sample group is too low to really infer anything.
    Do you mean my overall sample group (n=75)? Then I have to disagree I think that especially the overall coverage across the continent was already quite impressive, especially considering that in 2015 the number of Africans on 23andme would have been very small. i suppose this ensures some degree of the data being cross-sectional because it was collected at random from various parts of Africa. I also found it interesting how the matching patterns set at either 7cM and 10 cM seem to align well enough with historical evidence about the regional origins of the Afro-Diaspora. Overall contributing to the robustness of the data.

    It's true though that for each single country I obtained a minimal number of samples. Only the Nigerian and Ghananian sample groups being somewhat bigger. However these 75 Africans are being compared with probably thousands of Afro-descendants within the CoA database at that time. I made a rough estimation in my blog post about this number:

    In 2015 the total number of 23andme’s customers reached 1 million (in 2018 it is 5 million!). However the database available to the CoA tool only consisted of a subset of 23andme’s customers: people who had filled in the birth locations of their grandparents in 23andme’s survey. Furthermore only a small part of these people were of African descent. I have not come across any detailed numbers. However in 2014/2015 a study was published by 23andme based on the admixture results of 5,269 self-described African Americans, 8,663 Latinos, and 148,789 European Americans. So I suppose this could count as a baseline. See also:
    The genetic ancestry of African, Latino, and European Americans across the United States (Bryc et al., 2015, prepublished in 2014)

    The matching patterns I am describing are therefore based on 75 African individuals and their matches within a customer database which probably included atleast 13.000 people of African descent (combining African Americans and Latino’s) and possibly even somewhat more (unknown number of Africans & Caribbeans + database increase in 2015). Obviously individual variation will still be relevant but given that 75 Africans are being compared for similar DNA with thousands of Afro-descendants, the implications are already quite significant I would say. In particular for African Americans, presumably the biggest subgroup of Afro-Diasporans in the CoA tool.


    On Ancestry this database of potential Afro-descended matches will be much greater even, possibly including more than 100.000! I would say with such numbers you may already start outlining some implications/tendencies on a wider scale.

    Also I suppose you'd have to take into account that these matching patterns are including (potential) IBD segments inherited from MRCA's who lived mostly in the 1700's or earlier. So it's not just these 75 Africans who are being compared with thousands of Afro-descendants but actually it's the hundreds of ancestors of each individual sample being compared to thousands of Afro-descended 23andme customers
    Last edited by Don Felipe; 05-10-2018 at 11:19 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Felipe View Post
    Thanks! I have seen such West Asian matches being reported for Central Africans as well as East Africans also on Ancestry. I imagine any African lineage due to either slave trade or also voluntary migrations must usually be very diluted in those parts and only showing up for selected persons (a small Afro-Turkish community does still exist). But it does seem to be corroborated by these matching patterns.
    Indeed. Given the Ottoman's involvement in East-Africa, I would've thought there'd be somewhat of a minor detection for upper-nilotic ancestry among some Turks, however; most of the East-African affinity I've come across seems to be very ancient -- at least where paternal (A3b2b) ancestry is concerned.


    Quote Originally Posted by Don Felipe View Post
    The high match strength for my 2 Malagasy samples on 23andme is a fascinating outcome indeed. From what i've seen on Ancestry (i'm sharing with a couple of Malagasy profiles there as well) I can already say this outcome does not seem to be an anomaly. The ironic thing is that given documented slave trade records the majority of Malagasy captives actually arrived in some of the earliest time periods (late 1600's/early 1700's). And going by other historical clues I suspect that these early arriving captives would have been most influential within the AA genepool (due to founder effect and dispersal from Virginia into the deep South by way of the Domestic Slave Trade).
    Wow, who would've thought there'd be East-African involvement this early in the Atlantic Slave trade! Prior to abolition, I would've thought the distance and convenience of much closer West/Central-African slave markets meant zero involvement past the cape -- although they surely would've been a minority, I wonder by how much.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Felipe View Post
    Although like you rightfully pointed out also in the 1800's another batch of Southeast African captives arrived. Possibly the extent of which may have been underestimated. However it seems this time it was more so Mozambicans than Malagasy captives being involved (see this link for a complete overview of documented voyages). Also in absolute numbers it could not have amounted to a sizeable input. The total number of Malagasy captives being estimated to have been under 7,600. The domestic slave trade being a much larger source for the USA to satisfy the demand for slave labour after Abolition in 1808. While this later wave of Southeast African slave trade was heading toward Brazil principally, followed by the Spanish Americas. I have also read about some voluntary migrations of Malagasy sailors and spouses to the USA in the late 1800's. But again the numbers would have been minimal. See this page for more charts & references:

    Southeast African Slave Trade according to slavevoyages.com

    Thank you for sharing the links. Those are some staggering stats for the 19th century -- it's both saddening and ironic that the Haitian Revolution (1791–1804) didn't result in a deescalation of Trans-Atlantic slavery.

    It's perhaps worth keeping in mind, if we're counting on official documentation to discern the amount of disembarked slaves during the post-abolition period, it'd probably be a lot of guess-work -- especially in the South. Regardless, here's an estimates although maybe on the conservative-side (Finkelman, 2014):

    "To be sure, some slaves were smuggled into the United States after 1820 from both Africa and other places in the Western Hemisphere. But the risks were high and the numbers were relatively few. In an eight-year period, from 1800 until December 31, 1807, about 100,000 Africans were forcibly brought into the country. After 1820 it is unlikely that more than 10,000 were successfully landed in the United States. It may have been far fewer than that. As the internal slave trade replaced the African trade, hundreds of thousands of African-American slaves were uprooted and moved further south and further west. The cost of ending that trade would be much higher than ending the African trade. But the moral issue was set in 1819 and 1820 when the United States finally stated, in unequivocal terms, that enslaving people was a "wrong" and those who engaged in the African trade were no better than common pirates. And, like common pirates, they deserved to be hanged."


    If any records did exist, one would think it would've been hidden especially post the Act of 1820 whereby the overseas trade was made not only illegal but punishable by death. It also doesn't help that most of the chief East-African enslavers didn't document the trade nearly as much as those in West-Africa.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Felipe View Post
    Hopefully more research will be done on these matching patterns between Malagasy and African Americans to obtain more clarification. What I found striking is the minor European admixture (1.4% and 0.3%) present in both Malagasy profiles on 23andme. I'm curious to know to which extent such European admixture (even if minimal) might impact the number of matches in a database which is inherently biased towards picking up IBD segments based on European DNA. Then again I suspect this factor will not be all-explaining or even prevailing because when the CoA tool was still available I was able to verify myself for a couple of USA matches that their shared segments were either African or Asian in chromosome view.
    Good point. I'm also hoping we can get some reputable researchers to investigate these scenarios. I recall a blog of AAs with documented Malagasy ancestry, I think they were either settled in the New York/New-England region -- so that'd fall inline with the domestics you mentioned... I'll post their blog if I find it.

    When I first found a handful of AA matches (<8cM), I recall contacting academics to validate the findings -- I surprisingly got a response from a few (Dr. Fatimah Jackson, Dr. Rick Kittles); they found it interesting but didn't really dig any further ... given the small size of the segments and their inherent higher probability of being IBS, I don't blame them On the other hand, I'm assuming the match strength of these Malagasy matches would make them more reliable for determining a TMRCA or IBS/IBD segments.



    Quote Originally Posted by Don Felipe View Post
    Do you mean my overall sample group (n=75)? Then I have to disagree I think that especially the overall coverage across the continent was already quite impressive, especially considering that in 2015 the number of Africans on 23andme would have been very small. i suppose this ensures some degree of the data being cross-sectional because it was collected at random from various parts of Africa. I also found it interesting how the matching patterns set at either 7cM and 10 cM seem to align well enough with historical evidence about the regional origins of the Afro-Diaspora. Overall contributing to the robustness of the data.

    It's true though that for each single country I obtained a minimal number of samples. Only the Nigerian and Ghananian sample groups being somewhat bigger. However these 75 Africans are being compared with probably thousands of Afro-descendants within the CoA database at that time. I made a rough estimation in my blog post about this number:


    On Ancestry this database of potential Afro-descended matches will be much greater even, possibly including more than 100.000! I would say with such numbers you may already start outlining some implications/tendencies on a wider scale.

    Also I suppose you'd have to take into account that these matching patterns are including (potential) IBD segments inherited from MRCA's who lived mostly in the 1700's or earlier. So it's not just these 75 Africans who are being compared with thousands of Afro-descendants but actually it's the hundreds of ancestors of each individual sample being compared to thousands of Afro-descended 23andme customers
    There's absolutely no doubt that the breadth and sample size of your participants is impressive.

    I honestly don't think there's any other public source on the web that's as comprehensively detailed on the subject; not to mention the comparison of commercial results vis-a-vis the sources of historical documentation you've provided. This makes for a great basis for making inferences, my 2 cents as you've already cautioned, would be to just weigh a bit of caution given the sample size.

    Since outliers are common in any population, a higher resolution will give us the confidence needed for more hardliner inferences on the data -- I'd personally feel more comfortable once we're closer to the n-10 mark for sample groups. That being said, I still think the data is slowly confirming a lot of what you've mentioned here.

    It still amazes me, more than 3 years have gone by and my only 23andMe match is a visibly "Caucasian" Cuban of mulatto paternal ancestry. Similar to the strong Malagasy strength with AAs, my assumption for my sole Cuban match, although only sharing a small <8cM segment, is the late abolition of slavery in Cuba (1887) and the late involvement of Central/Southern-East Africa in the 19th century ...but for all I know, it could just be a random IBS segment. Interestingly, the same segment overlapped an AA match of mine on GEDmatch.
    Last edited by Angoliga; 05-15-2018 at 12:43 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by NiloSaharan View Post
    I recall a blog of AAs with documented Malagasy ancestry, I think they were either settled in the New York/New-England region -- so that'd fall inline with the domestics you mentioned... I'll post their blog if I find it.

    Is it this one? This is indeed an excellent blog by a AA/PR friend of mine!
    The DNA Trail from Madagascar to Manhattan (Radiant Roots & Boricua Branches)



    Quote Originally Posted by NiloSaharan View Post
    When I first found a handful of AA matches (<8cM), I recall contacting academics to validate the findings -- I surprisingly got a response from a few (Dr. Fatimah Jackson, Dr. Rick Kittles); they found it interesting but didn't really dig any further ... given the small size of the segments and their inherent higher probability of being IBS, I don't blame them
    Wow! So you even got Dr. Kittles to respond I wonder which African groups your maternal & paternal lineage would be matched with in African Ancestry's database



    Quote Originally Posted by NiloSaharan View Post
    I'm assuming the match strength of these Malagasy matches would make them more reliable for determining a TMRCA or IBS/IBD segments.
    Yes I think so too, the number of 10cM+ matches was quite impressive, even reaching 15cM in some cases! Another thing I found interesting about the Malagasy matches were the ones from Asia. Philippines kinda was to be expected as a proxy for their Southeast Asian ancestry (mostly by way of Borneo it seems and probably to be traced back 1500-1000 years ago) but also from Vietnam, China and even Japan! All of these matches smaller than 7cM. So i suppose the odds of these matches being IBS or generic population matches would be high. Still fascinating to see how that works out.



    Quote Originally Posted by NiloSaharan View Post



    There's absolutely no doubt that the breadth and sample size of your participants is impressive.
    Thanks!


    Quote Originally Posted by NiloSaharan View Post
    Since outliers are common in any population, a higher resolution will give us the confidence needed for more hardliner inferences on the data -- I'd personally feel more comfortable once we're closer to the n-10 mark for sample groups. That being said, I still think the data is slowly confirming a lot of what you've mentioned here.
    Yes, I absolutely agree! I don't think I've told you yet, but I've been steadily adding more East African results in my AncestryDNA survey. Including two Ugandans! Their breakdown being very similar to yours (99% SE Bantu and 100% SE Bantu, as an aside Ancestry is probably going to create a new Eastern Africa region ). Very illustrative to the point you're making one of these Ugandans shows a much greater number of DNA matches on Ancestry than you do: 11 pages with each 50 matches!!! I'd really like to do a detailed comparison eventually of the matching patterns for these East Africans I'm sharing with on Ancestry (aside from about a dozen Kenyans, also a few from Tanzania, Somalia, Rwanda/Burundi, and Malawi). But that might again still take quite a while to finish, just too much data to handle lol!




    Quote Originally Posted by NiloSaharan View Post
    It still amazes me, more than 3 years have gone by and my only 23andMe match is a visibly "Caucasian" Cuban of mulatto paternal ancestry. Similar to the strong Malagasy strength with AAs, my assumption for my sole Cuban match, although only sharing a small <8cM segment, is the late abolition of slavery in Cuba (1887) and the late involvement of Central/Southern-East Africa in the 19th century ...
    Yes for Cuba I would assume an increased degree of historical plausibility exists given not only the continuity of largescale & direct slave imports from Africa into the mid 1800's. But also because in that later time period Southeast African sources made up a minor but still significant proportion of total trade (>5%). Usually by way of Mozambique but incidentally also from further up north the Swahili coast I imagine.
    Last edited by Don Felipe; 05-15-2018 at 08:21 PM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Don Felipe View Post
    Is it this one? This is indeed an excellent blog by a AA/PR friend of mine!
    The DNA Trail from Madagascar to Manhattan (Radiant Roots & Boricua Branches)
    Yepp, that's the one! Thanks for sharing

    ... that's crazy she's a friend of yours
    - a very well documented blog, I admire her amount of detail.


    Quote Originally Posted by Don Felipe View Post
    Wow! So you even got Dr. Kittles to respond I wonder which African groups your maternal & paternal lineage would be matched with in African Ancestry's database
    I never gave that much thought, the cost of their tests were a bit of a deterrent the last time I checked but it would be neat to know.


    Quote Originally Posted by Don Felipe View Post
    Yes, I absolutely agree! I don't think I've told you yet, but I've been steadily adding more East African results in my AncestryDNA survey. Including two Ugandans!
    Yayy!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


    - That reminds me, I recently discovered another Ugandan match (16.4cM). I wonder if he's one of your participants; his regional breakdown is the exact same as mine (Africa Southeastern Bantu, Africa South-Central Hunter-Gatherers Trace Regions: Senegal). His father is from the same nilotic tribe as my mother (Kakwa) and his maternal line is from Western-Uganda; they have a lot of Cushitic-like ancestry similar to Rwandans -- so his ancestry results are a little surprising, I would've expected a few traces of Africa North/Middleast and a mosaic of West-African trace regions. Anywho, I'll ask him if he's willing to share his actual breakdown % for your blog.

    Another interesting takeway from this match: after he uploaded his kit on GEDmatch, it was amazing to compare his relatedness to other immediate-members of the family. His total cM with my mother was 49.8cM yet with one of my siblings it was as little as 7.3cM. I guess it goes to show, recombination can be extremely random.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Felipe View Post
    Their breakdown being very similar to yours (99% SE Bantu and 100% SE Bantu, as an aside Ancestry is probably going to create a new Eastern Africa region ).
    About damn time eh?!! Did you hear about the Somali petition? It really is a travesty for a company of it's standing.

    Quote Originally Posted by Don Felipe View Post
    Very illustrative to the point you're making one of these Ugandans shows a much greater number of DNA matches on Ancestry than you do: 11 pages with each 50 matches!!! I'd really like to do a detailed comparison eventually of the matching patterns for these East Africans I'm sharing with on Ancestry (aside from about a dozen Kenyans, also a few from Tanzania, Somalia, Rwanda/Burundi, and Malawi). But that might again still take quite a while to finish, just too much data to handle lol!
    11 pages!!? That's an incredible contrast to the 9 matches I currently have.

    It would be amazing if you could make such a comparison but I wouldn't hold it against you if you didn't, like you said, that's quite the load of data

    It's too bad most of the Central-East Africans I've met, including myself, were completely oblivious to the extent of the slave trade in their region -- again, the lack of hard historical evidence doesn't help either. I'm always reminded by the conclusion of an old Ugandan mtDNA paper (Isabirye, 2010):

    "It is again envisaged that distantly related people have closely related mtDNA haplotypes
    that link them to their ancestral place of origin. The clustering of sequences of the
    Baganda, Lugbara and Acholi with sequences of individuals from Dominican Republic and
    the Island of Hispaniola, demonstrated that there was a possibility of slave trade involving
    Ugandans being shipped into America by some means. Since there is no historical
    account of slave trade directly from Uganda to America and since it was the Arabs,
    Afro-Arabs and Egyptians who penetrated the interior of Uganda to deal in slavery
    (Ssekamwa, 1994; Were and Wilson, 1984), it is probable that the Arabs, Afro-Arabs or
    Egyptians sold some of the slaves to America. Alternatively, it could be that there was
    some undetectable gene flow from Uganda to certain countries in Africa and thereafter to
    America thus contributing to the transatlantic slave trade. Concrete evidence for this is
    however unavailable.
    Alternatively, there could have been genetic similarity between
    individuals in certain African countries that contributed to transatlantic slave trade with
    these Ugandan samples but no evidence of this is available. The characterisation of East
    African populations will therefore be of immense value to the African-Americans and
    African-Arabs to discover their heritage that was lost through slave trade, a goal that has
    been the primary objective of the DNA Roots projects (Alves-Silva et al., 2000; Bandelt
    et al., 2001; Salas et al., 2005; Abu-Amero et al., 2007)."


    Quote Originally Posted by Don Felipe View Post
    Yes for Cuba I would assume an increased degree of historical plausibility exists given not only the continuity of largescale & direct slave imports from Africa into the mid 1800's. But also because in that later time period Southeast African sources made up a minor but still significant proportion of total trade (>5%). Usually by way of Mozambique but incidentally also from further up north the Swahili coast I imagine.
    Interesting! In the near future, it'll be fascinating to see more reliable Cuban matches from other persons of East/Southeast African descent.
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    Not sure if anyone is still interested in this thread, but I am a 38 year old Black American female, born in Louisiana. I thought we were pretty much “creole” “American Indian” kinda. Well about 15 years ago as I was doing a genealogy chart my aunt told me that my great great grandfather was either from Egypt or Ethiopia...or both...lol she couldn’t remember. Fast forward, my dad takes a DNA test, and BAM 💥Algeria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia....pretty much the MENA and other Latin American countries like Brazil, Venezuela and Mexico. My dad and I have a close match that I have been in contact with from Saudi Arabia....he said they’re pretty wealthy (lucky bastards where’s my royalties?) he’s like a 4th or 5th cousin to me, but like a 3rd or 4th cousin to my dad. He’s like 12 cM in relation to me. My dad took a different DNA 🧬 test and we all showed up as a close match. So related this information to my aunt that her dad was probably part Middle eastern and she wasn’t surprised. My dna shows high amounts of East African, then middle eastern, then west Asian. Typically from my understanding, these dna results seem to pair with each other. In other words, if you have East African, you’ll probably have North African, West Asian and Middle Eastern too. The funny thing is, I live in New Orleans and a lot of us are mixed race, but I always get people telling me I look weird...like what am I ? Lol I swear I can see the middle eastern in my family. I can definitely see the East African in me. But what’s interesting is how my aunt knew where my grandfather was from. I suspect he migrated to the Americas during the Levantine Diaspora. A man from the Sudan told me that’s probably when he came because we have no early records for him. If you want me to post a picture of myself I can. Also, I found other matches and the centimorgans were even higher in numbers and there was more North African and East African DNA with those relatives. So any questions?

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    Quote Originally Posted by Sheisavirgo View Post
    Not sure if anyone is still interested in this thread, but I am a 38 year old Black American female, born in Louisiana. I thought we were pretty much “creole” “American Indian” kinda. Well about 15 years ago as I was doing a genealogy chart my aunt told me that my great great grandfather was either from Egypt or Ethiopia...or both...lol she couldn’t remember. Fast forward, my dad takes a DNA test, and BAM ��Algeria, Egypt, Saudi Arabia....pretty much the MENA and other Latin American countries like Brazil, Venezuela and Mexico. My dad and I have a close match that I have been in contact with from Saudi Arabia....he said they’re pretty wealthy (lucky bastards where’s my royalties?) he’s like a 4th or 5th cousin to me, but like a 3rd or 4th cousin to my dad. He’s like 12 cM in relation to me. My dad took a different DNA �� test and we all showed up as a close match. So related this information to my aunt that her dad was probably part Middle eastern and she wasn’t surprised. My dna shows high amounts of East African, then middle eastern, then west Asian. Typically from my understanding, these dna results seem to pair with each other. In other words, if you have East African, you’ll probably have North African, West Asian and Middle Eastern too. The funny thing is, I live in New Orleans and a lot of us are mixed race, but I always get people telling me I look weird...like what am I ? Lol I swear I can see the middle eastern in my family. I can definitely see the East African in me. But what’s interesting is how my aunt knew where my grandfather was from. I suspect he migrated to the Americas during the Levantine Diaspora. A man from the Sudan told me that’s probably when he came because we have no early records for him. If you want me to post a picture of myself I can. Also, I found other matches and the centimorgans were even higher in numbers and there was more North African and East African DNA with those relatives. So any questions?
    Welcome to the forum.

    The MENA matches suggest that your great-great grandfather was probably from an Islamic background. There were very few Egyptians sold into the slave trade as far as I'm aware, so more likely his origins lay in a Muslim part of Ethiopia or even Somalia/Sudan.

    Check the locations of your DNA relatives if possible. If most come from, say, Ethiopia, your origins probably lie there.

    As for how your aunt knew about his origins- some genealogical information is of course passed down orally. While this could become mutated over time as in the millions of "Cherokee princess" stories, some family legends have survived intact for generations.
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    Quote Originally Posted by mildlycurly View Post
    Welcome to the forum.

    The MENA matches suggest that your great-great grandfather was probably from an Islamic background. There were very few Egyptians sold into the slave trade as far as I'm aware, so more likely his origins lay in a Muslim part of Ethiopia or even Somalia/Sudan.

    Check the locations of your DNA relatives if possible. If most come from, say, Ethiopia, your origins probably lie there.

    As for how your aunt knew about his origins- some genealogical information is of course passed down orally. While this could become mutated over time as in the millions of "Cherokee princess" stories, some family legends have survived intact for generations.
    Excuse me? you are seriously wrong, as there were definitely more slaves of Egyptian background. Somali slaves? when was this a thing? and less Egyptian slaves than Somali slaves? why do you assume this without any facts to back you up? is it because Somalis are darkskinned that they must have had a history with slavery?. What makes you think the two groups (Sudani Arabs and Somalis) that never had a history of being enslaved are more likely to be enslaved than Egyptians, who were being enslaved for centuries? it's clearly because those two are dark skinned when Egyptians are lighter am I right?. Ironic, as it was Somalis and Sudani Arabs that were enslaving other groups, including the rare village Copts, and especially the Habesha and Oromo. But them being enslaved by Arabs?

    It was considered illegal to enslave an ethnic Somali, and the rare case of a washed up Somali sailor being captured by Bedouin was settled by proving they were Somali to the local authorities.

    She never mentioned slavery either, so why do you bring it up? is it because she's black?

    @Sheisvirgo, who did you test with? 23andme is the most accurate when it comes to seeing whether you have any Northeast African ancestry, outside of Egyptians.

    With what you said of your matches and background, this ancestor sounds like a Middle Eastern/North African person. Do you have any results you want to share?

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  16. #99
    I'm gonna have to upload my own matches asap cuz 23andme have already removed two of my African-American matches, unfortunately, as they're known to do when it comes to 'distant cousins'. Sucks cuz was one an old lady in her 80s, and was 90% tropical African.

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