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Thread: R1b1a1a2a1a1c1a (R1b-S497): a native Celtic branch of R1b1a1a2a1a1 (R1b-U106) ?

  1. #181
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    Here comes a kind of educated guess. Imo the Oostwoud/ Elp/Tumulus comes from a younger wave (about 1800 BC) from Central Europe to NW Europe. Most obvious sign of them is the big Tumulus graves of chieftains. In some sort of way this is close connected to an Hungarian influence.
    The biggest chieftain Tumulus of the Northern plain is situated in Drouwen. And let that area be exactly the auDNA region of my mom.
    And ok precocious and through the eyelashes:

    PuntDNAL K12
    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Vatya_SG_RISE479 @ 6.823555
    2 Hungary_BA_I1502 @ 7.781680
    3 Unetice_EBA_I0117 @ 9.148265
    4 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099 @ 9.173981
    5 Alberstedt_LN_I0118 @ 9.498103
    6 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549 @ 10.209095
    7 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 @ 10.343945
    8 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059 @ 10.560879
    9 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569 @ 14.696379
    10 Potapovka_I0419 @ 16.609535

    And
    Eurasia K14
    1 Bell_Beaker_LN3 @ 10.563288
    2 HungaryGamba_IA @ 11.617286
    3 Hungarian_BA8 @ 12.735939
    4 HungaryGamba_BA1 @ 16.207710
    5 Bell_Beaker_LN2 @ 17.050062
    6 Bell_Beaker_BA1 @ 18.841318
    7 Nordic_BA1 @ 19.257463
    8 Nordic_IA @ 19.258163
    9 Unetice_BA1 @ 19.326574
    10 Sintashta_BA @ 19.423244
    11 Bell_Beaker_LN4 @ 19.859108

    Some Hungarian influence indeed.....

    Were in this Tumulus wave also some R1b U106 (from some younger lines than Rise98)?????
    Hmm interesting... I only wish we got a bit more than just U106 - Z381 from Oostwoud man as he COULD be Z156 as that is the next level under Z381... and is dated to later than the Unetice man. Tumulus comes after (direct descendant?) of Unetice and Dr. Iain and I are looking at reasons for the collapse of the Unetice and movement Westward as there are Unetice in Germany I believe... Dr. Iain and I are very interested in Unetice man as he is positive to the SNP level S1900/S1894 and that is actually where Iain and I split... and then he goes his way (mainly Isles) and I go my way in S4004 which is mainly an Northern Isles group for now... and includes a possible local from Northern England or SW Scotland in the Gladiator from 200-300 AD 6drif-3 so we know it was there then ;-).
    Y-DNA: 4th GGF Adam Weaver born 1785 in Pennsylvania - Sergeant in US 17th Infantry, War of 1812: R1b-U106-Z381-Z156-Z305/306/307-Z304-DF98-S1911-S1894/S1900-S4004/FGC14818/FGC14823-FGC14816/FGC14817. I share these SNPs w/ York Gladiator 6drif-3

    mtDNA: 3rd GGM Bridget Dana b. 1843 Ireland - MtDNA - T2b2b - most common in Ireland, connection to Scandinavia (T2b2b most common in Ireland/Scan) aka T2b female warrior burial Grave Bj 581 near Birka, Sweden.

  2. #182
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    Quote Originally Posted by uintah106 View Post
    99% of U106 is Z2265+> BY30097+ , I'm over here in the tiny group that is Z2265+> BY30097-along with the Rise 98 sample though our lines diverge after that. Lolland Dk is quite close to L.Beddinge Sweden
    You are a throw back to the earliest U106 found to date my friend ;-).
    Y-DNA: 4th GGF Adam Weaver born 1785 in Pennsylvania - Sergeant in US 17th Infantry, War of 1812: R1b-U106-Z381-Z156-Z305/306/307-Z304-DF98-S1911-S1894/S1900-S4004/FGC14818/FGC14823-FGC14816/FGC14817. I share these SNPs w/ York Gladiator 6drif-3

    mtDNA: 3rd GGM Bridget Dana b. 1843 Ireland - MtDNA - T2b2b - most common in Ireland, connection to Scandinavia (T2b2b most common in Ireland/Scan) aka T2b female warrior burial Grave Bj 581 near Birka, Sweden.

  3. The Following User Says Thank You to Bollox79 For This Useful Post:

     uintah106 (03-13-2018)

  4. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Finn View Post
    A detailed description of Oostwoud:

    https://www.researchgate.net/profile...f-old-data.pdf

    one add from member rafc:
    Rafc:
    I think Finn, with the spread and clustering of the subgroups of U106 we may find they spread with different cultures... I'd say L48 was a part of the Nordic Bronze Age for sure... that is why I want to know if any of those Longobards in Szolad or Collegno are Z156+... as if none are... then that is interesting ;-). Getting Mr. S1894 in Unetice gets us started for our branch of DF98... remember the two main branches of DF98 for now are the Wettin side of things aka S18823 and our side S1911... two groups with lots of samples in Germany and the Low Countries and the Isles... and some sporadic samples elsewhere... what groups where moving through those areas at the time these SNPs were later splitting up? I think that is what Dr. Iain is trying to figure out, but we need more ancient samples from along the Rhine etc... and that is just my subgroup of U106... the whole story is more complicated as you know you are focusing more on the earlier stuff right Finn? :-).
    Y-DNA: 4th GGF Adam Weaver born 1785 in Pennsylvania - Sergeant in US 17th Infantry, War of 1812: R1b-U106-Z381-Z156-Z305/306/307-Z304-DF98-S1911-S1894/S1900-S4004/FGC14818/FGC14823-FGC14816/FGC14817. I share these SNPs w/ York Gladiator 6drif-3

    mtDNA: 3rd GGM Bridget Dana b. 1843 Ireland - MtDNA - T2b2b - most common in Ireland, connection to Scandinavia (T2b2b most common in Ireland/Scan) aka T2b female warrior burial Grave Bj 581 near Birka, Sweden.

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     uintah106 (03-14-2018)

  6. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bollox79 View Post
    I think Finn, with the spread and clustering of the subgroups of U106 we may find they spread with different cultures... I'd say L48 was a part of the Nordic Bronze Age for sure... that is why I want to know if any of those Longobards in Szolad or Collegno are Z156+... as if none are... then that is interesting ;-). Getting Mr. S1894 in Unetice gets us started for our branch of DF98... remember the two main branches of DF98 for now are the Wettin side of things aka S18823 and our side S1911... two groups with lots of samples in Germany and the Low Countries and the Isles... and some sporadic samples elsewhere... what groups where moving through those areas at the time these SNPs were later splitting up? I think that is what Dr. Iain is trying to figure out, but we need more ancient samples from along the Rhine etc... and that is just my subgroup of U106... the whole story is more complicated as you know you are focusing more on the earlier stuff right Finn? :-).
    I guess so. Your notions about the collaps of the Unetice culture are interesting.....the question is from about the same room, buit slightly different more "Hungarian", took over the "torch" from Unetice.

    What kind of Hungarian cultures/tribes played a part in it and spread Tumulus to the Northern Plain, Southern Scandinavia? Anyone??????

    In the Rise98 case we didn't saw the "Hungarian"/Tumulus influence.

    But obviously the Tumulus culture had a big impact on the NW European area. So that it even coloured the admixture of nowadays NW Europeans (North Dutch).

    There "has to be" a connection with some R1b U106 lines. In my auDNA there is of course a shot of Nordics that spread R1b U106, during the iron age. But, as Oostwoud shows, R1b U106 settled already in the Bronze Age on the Northern Plain!

    For fun my father's case:

    PuntDNAl K12

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Halberstadt_LBA_I0099 @ 5.801738
    2 Unetice_EBA_I0117 @ 5.904503
    3 Alberstedt_LN_I0118 @ 6.546912
    4 Bell_Beaker_Germany_I1549 @ 6.575426
    5 BenzigerodeHeimburg_LN_I0059 @ 7.038621
    6 Nordic_LN_SG_RISE97 @ 7.125272
    7 Vatya_SG_RISE479 @ 9.671631
    8 Hungary_BA_I1502 @ 10.897428
    9 Bell_Beaker_Czech_RISE569 @ 11.189474
    10 Potapovka_I0419 @ 12.889376

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Vatya_SG_RISE479 +50% Halberstadt_LBA_I0099 @ 2.208961

    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Hungary_BA_I1502 +25% Halberstadt_LBA_I0099 +25% Srubnaya_I0430 @ 1.571445

    Eurasia K14
    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 HungaryGamba_IA @ 10.457363
    2 Bell_Beaker_LN3 @ 10.465684
    3 Bell_Beaker_LN2 @ 13.772042
    4 Hungarian_BA8 @ 13.909028
    5 HungaryGamba_BA1 @ 15.595771
    6 Bell_Beaker_BA1 @ 15.755696
    7 Nordic_IA @ 16.026169
    8 RISE_baSca @ 17.655712
    9 Unetice_BA1 @ 18.111576
    10 Sintashta_BA @ 18.352066

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% HungaryGamba_IA +50% Hungarian_BA8 @ 5.085634


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% HungaryGamba_IA +25% Corded_Ware_BA6 +25% Unetice_BA2 @ 3.834453
    Last edited by Finn; 03-14-2018 at 07:25 AM.

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  8. #185
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bollox79 View Post
    I think Finn, with the spread and clustering of the subgroups of U106 we may find they spread with different cultures... I'd say L48 was a part of the Nordic Bronze Age for sure... that is why I want to know if any of those Longobards in Szolad or Collegno are Z156+... as if none are... then that is interesting ;-). Getting Mr. S1894 in Unetice gets us started for our branch of DF98... remember the two main branches of DF98 for now are the Wettin side of things aka S18823 and our side S1911... two groups with lots of samples in Germany and the Low Countries and the Isles... and some sporadic samples elsewhere... what groups where moving through those areas at the time these SNPs were later splitting up? I think that is what Dr. Iain is trying to figure out, but we need more ancient samples from along the Rhine etc... and that is just my subgroup of U106... the whole story is more complicated as you know you are focusing more on the earlier stuff right Finn? :-).
    You described the intern problems of Unetice, but what about extern agressors.....

    Because I got the link between Bronze Age Hungary and NW Europe (about1800 BC):


    HAJDUSAMSON


    Was this warrior elite a kind of "little Dzjengis Khans" responsible for an influx of new lines of R1b U106???

    Bronze Age lines between Hungary and NW Europe:
    Last edited by Finn; 03-14-2018 at 07:24 AM.

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