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Thread: Looking For O'Hair/O'Hare M222 Men In Ulster And Adjacent Areas

  1. #1
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    Looking For O'Hair/O'Hare M222 Men In Ulster And Adjacent Areas

    I am an O'Hair who is a direct male line descendant of an O'Hair/O'Hare who was born in 1749 who was also from County Down, in what is now Northern Ireland. My cousin who also is a direct male line descendant, has been confirmed for M222. He is doing another test to see which SNP downstream of M222 that he is. He believes he will be either A259 or A260. From what my cousin has told me and shown me, I believe he will be one of those two SNPs also.

    He has matches with many people, including several Hares (also O'Reillys, MacGoverns distantly, etc). One of the Hares is a descendant of a Hare from County Cavan, which is close to County Down. Other Hare matches may be from Ulster, other Hare matches may be from other places in Ireland, or, in at least one instance, a Hare match may be ultimately from Scotland.

    The only O'Hare, except for those in a 2006 study, that I see that has done a Y-DNA test, is a descendant of Hugh O'Hare in the Family Tree County Down DNA project! (Hugh is DF41.) So, obviously he isn't M222.

    In 2006 or so, there was a DNA study using 12 markers that showed 11 out of 18 O'Hares (most from Ulster) to be M222. http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-09/1285200942 I know that since there were only 12 markers used, many of these could be false positives. However, I believe that if these men would do enough testing today, that at least some of them would be M222 confirmed.

    According to the genealogist John O'Hart, who I know should be used with caution, the Armagh/Down area O'Hares were descendants of the MacRannalls (many of whom anglicized their name to Reynolds.) The MacRannalls were said to be of the Clanna Rory, the Rudricians. I have seen only one Reynolds or McReynolds who is M222. Many of the Reynolds in the Family Tree Reynolds Family DNA Project have only tested enough to be shown to be M269.

    Does anyone know of any websites that show any Ulster or nearby area O'Hares who have done Y-DNA tests (or descend from O'Hares from Ulster or the nearby areas)? It is kind of mind-boggling that so many Hares have done Y-DNA testing, but only one Ulster O'Hare?!! (except for the 2006 study)

    Thanks greatly for any help!!!
    Last edited by fridurich; 02-24-2016 at 09:40 PM.

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    All the above names occur in he Craigavon area of county Armagh, specifically Lurgan. Hare is normally the protestant version so if your looking in record that might help. M222 is every here around there.

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    Thanks for your reply! I noticed on an episode of Finding Your Roots (don't know if it shows in Ireland or Great Britain), that in at least one Irish record they found for Bill O'Reilly's (of the show The O'Reilly Factor) ancestor, that the ancestor's name was spelled without the O', it was Reilly, or Riley, etc.

    So, I wonder if in some of the areas I mention, if at times O'Hare was used, but at other times if they went by Hare.

    Bill O'Reilly's ancestors came from County Cavan. Both Bill O'Reilly and Bill Mahre, comedian/T.V. personality, were confirmed M222 through Y-DNA tests. The show's host (Henry Louis?) Gates, a black man, also took a test which confirmed him for M222. Gates knew or suspected he had some white ancestry. They were unable to trace Gate's line out of the U.S.

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    Thanks for your reply! I noticed on an episode of Finding Your Roots (don't know if it shows in Ireland or Great Britain), that in at least one Irish record they found for Bill O'Reilly's (of the show The O'Reilly Factor) ancestor, that the ancestor's name was spelled without the O', it was Reilly, or Riley, etc.

    So, I wonder if in some of the areas I mention, if at times O'Hare was used, but at other times if they went by Hare.

    Bill O'Reilly's ancestors came from County Cavan. Both Bill O'Reilly and Bill Mahre, comedian/T.V. personality, were confirmed M222 through Y-DNA tests. The show's host (Henry Louis?) Gates, a black man, also took a test which confirmed him for M222. Gates knew or suspected he had some white ancestry. They were unable to trace Gate's line out of the U.S.

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    http://reckelfamily.com/OHair/KROHairPages/Page035.htm this might help if you haven't already seen it.

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    Thanks A.D. I have been on that web site before and it also talks about my ancestor Michael O'Hair (b. 1749, and from Co. Down) and his descendants. One thing I didn't notice, or I forgot, was where it said there lived an O'Heire chief in the barony of Massareene and also that according to O'Dugans topography, this chief was the chief of the Ui Fiachrach clan. I did some online research and found actually the name of the chief of the Hy Fiachrach was O'Heirc, so I guess a typo occurred. I think it is possible that some of O'Hares could have originally be O'Heirc, the two names being similar.

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    Quote Originally Posted by fridurich View Post
    Thanks for your reply! I noticed on an episode of Finding Your Roots (don't know if it shows in Ireland or Great Britain), that in at least one Irish record they found for Bill O'Reilly's (of the show The O'Reilly Factor) ancestor, that the ancestor's name was spelled without the O', it was Reilly, or Riley, etc.

    So, I wonder if in some of the areas I mention, if at times O'Hare was used, but at other times if they went by Hare.

    Bill O'Reilly's ancestors came from County Cavan. Both Bill O'Reilly and Bill Mahre, comedian/T.V. personality, were confirmed M222 through Y-DNA tests. The show's host (Henry Louis?) Gates, a black man, also took a test which confirmed him for M222. Gates knew or suspected he had some white ancestry. They were unable to trace Gate's line out of the U.S.
    I could be wrong on this but I believe O'Reilly and Maher were actually autosomal matches and not matches due to Y-DNA. They both shared a segment etc.

    With regards to dropping the O' -- this was quite common during 19th century, of course at end of 19th century there was cultural revival, which led to many people readapting O's and Mac's -- good example of this is surname O'Sullivan. Today O'Sullivan is dominant form in Ireland, however in mid 19th century Sullivan was dominant angliscation, as a result many diaspora community bearers of name are specifically "Sullivan".

    Of course the original Irish language form is Ó Súileabháin. Today in Ireland you probably more likely to hear O'Reilly but you do get Reilly by itself as well (outgoing government minister called James Reilly for example)
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    The mention of an O'Hare in Cavan is interesting with regards to matches with A259/A260 men. Cavan basically maps onto historic "sub-kingdom" of East Bréifne. Bréifne itself consisted of both Leitrim and Cavan and was regarded historically as been part of Connacht (basically "March lands"). The O'Rourkes had expanded the king of Bréifne right throughout the 12th century, taking land from Midhe so for example Kells.

    The diocese of Kilmore as created in 1152 basically represents the core of Kingdom of Bréifne in the 1150's.


    Tigernán Ua Ruairc who was King of Bréifne at this time was one of leading characters in the drama that led to Cambro-Norman invasion of Ireland. He himself was killed at a parley with Hugh de Lacey in 1172 in Meath (At the Hill of Ward, if I recall correctly). Of course given that Hugh de Lacey had basically taken over Meath it's not surprising this would happen. Bréifne subseqently in the next century spilt into two, namely West Bréifne controlled by the O'Rourke's, and East Bréifne controlled by the O'Reillys. A situation which lasted up until the early 17th century.

    West Bréifne == Leitrim
    East Bréifne == Cavan

    One of your closest matches at 111 markers Costigan is actually a McGovern. McGovern like O'Rourke and O'Reilly belong to the Uí Briúin Bréifne (eg. the Uí Briúin of Bréifne). A259 in general seem's to be "enriched" among men who bear Uí Briúin surnames. If your cousin has a match bearing surname Hare with origin in Cavan, this might point at ultimate origin within Bréifne and subsequent movement. After all people did move around particularly given the affects of 17th century in Ireland.

    It's quite possible you are looking at angliscation based on assimilation of another surname. I note the following in Woulfe:

    Mag FHEARADHAIGH—IV—M'Garee, M'Garrye, Magearrye, M'Gerrye, M'Girrie, MacGarry, Magarry, MacGeary, MacGerry, MacGherry, Megarry, O'Garriga, Garahy, Garrahy, Garrihy, Garry, Gerry, Gery, and, by 'translation,' O'Hare, Hare; 'son of Fearadhach' (manly); a variant of Mac Fhearadhaigh, which see; a not uncommon surname, especially in East Connacht, Tyrone and Antrim; in the spoken language, sometimes corrupted to Ó Giorraidhe, and erroneously translated O'Hare and Hare, as if from 'girrfhiadh,' a hare; sometimes also to Ó Gearaga, anglicised O'Garriga. Compare with Mac Fhearadhaigh.

    --
    Ó GIORRAIDHE—IV—O'Hare, Hare, Haire; a corruption of Mag Fhearadhaigh, which see; supposed to be derived from 'girrfhiadh,' a hare; hence the anglicised forms, O'Hare, &c.
    The East Connacht above could cover in sense Bréifne. Now if you cousin has the M222 bundle on order it will at least test the following



    A883/A887 shows up in a number of O'Reillys who've done both individual SNP testing as well as BigY. Though I should note that McGovern as a surname has lineage that seperates from that of O'Reilly's/O'Rourkes in the 8th century.
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    I was looking at the Irish Times page with regards to spelling variations of McGarry, one interesting bit here:

    Deir de Bhulbh gur deineadh Hare de in Oirghialla as cosúlacht éigin le "giorria"!
    Translation:
    Woulfe (de Bhulbh) said that the name was made Hare in Oirghialla (Oirialla) because it sounded like "giorria"! (the word for Hare in Irish)

    What's interesting here is that Oirghialla (Oirialla in modern written Irish) is basically Monaghan/Louth/Fermanagh and at push comes to shove Armagh, though generally in later medieval period it's restricted to Monaghan and north Louth.

    From a geographic point of view you are seeing what appears to be movement from west to east.

    numerous: Midlands, Clare etc. Ir. Mag Fhearadhaigh. Fearadhach was a very early personal name, possibly meaning "manly". The name originated in E Connacht and appears in many guises: Garahy, Garrihy, MacGarry and by peculiar mistranslation - O'Hare. SI & SGG.
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  10. #10
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    Thanks for your reply Dubhthach.

    I watched the Finding Your Roots episode on computer at http://www.pbs.org/weta/finding-your-roots/. They keep past episodes for a period of time. I watched the parts where it talked about O'Reilly and Bill Maher being confirmed for M222 at least twice, because I wanted to make sure I understood what I heard correctly. Maher, O'Reilly, and Gates, the show's host, all were confirmed for M222. O'Reilly and Maher also were an autosomal match. They were both very surprised to learn that they were related to each other, especially considering how opposite they are politically.

    Gates believed he was of Irish ancestry, but I don't know how he could be sure it wasn't Scottish, unless he did further testing. Seems like I have seen a Gates online in a DNA project in the same grouping as other M222s, some of whom were a259 or a260. There was something about it, maybe the area that Gates lived in, or the given name, that made me wonder if this was the same family as the host of Finding Your Roots.

    Also, I believe it was on this same show where it said that it is believed that O'Reilly and Maher had a common ancestor who lived in the last 500 years.

    I know that a lot of O'Reillys are M222, but I don't know if there are many Mahers that are. Also, I don't know what part(s) of Ireland Maher is commonly found. I forgot where in Ireland they traced Bill Maher's ancestors to. It doesn't seem like it was Ulster, but further south.

    During the 16th and 17th centuries, did any of the Gaelic Irish drop the O' and resume it later, or was that basically a 19th century phenomenon?
    Last edited by fridurich; 02-29-2016 at 06:41 PM.

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