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Thread: Bit of grounding needed!

  1. #1
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    Bit of grounding needed!

    Apologies in advance as i am very new to all of this and i am sure you get these kinds of hopeless questions all the time..

    I have recently tested positive for L2 and am hoping for some additional context on what this means for my paternal ancestry. I've looked through a few posts on numerous forums but i's all a bit confusing. Many posts seem to suggest that L2 originated in the Italian Alps area or that Italy itself is the origin? However, several other posts appear to contradict this by stating a greater proportion of L2 occurs in other populations away from the Italy/Alp geographic.. Then there appears to be a Roman/non-Roman argument that has been foxed.

    I realise the science on this is not exact but i'd appreciate a bit of guidance? Is there some 'recommended reading' for L2?



    My own paper research is rather unhelpful and only dates back to 1790's with a suggestion to 1400's link with the Netherlands. I'd hoped to have this confirmed through y tests but no such luck.


    My tests are with ftdna #392206 and i've done y111 and the M343 backbone.

    A1773-, A2150-, A274-, A4670-, A517-, BY2823-, BY2868-, BY575-, BY653-, CTS10429-, CTS11567-, CTS11994-, CTS1751-, CTS3386-, CTS3937-, CTS4466-, CTS4528-, CTS5330-, CTS5689-, CTS6937-, CTS7763-, DF103-, DF110-, DF17-, DF19-, DF21-, DF27 *, DF41-, DF49-, DF63-, DF81-, DF83-, DF88-, DF95-, DF99-, F2017-, F2691-, F2863-, FGC10516-, FGC11134-, FGC13620-, FGC20761-, FGC22501-, FGC3861-, FGC396-, FGC5301-, FGC5336-, FGC5344-, FGC5345-, FGC5351-, FGC5354-, FGC5356-, FGC5367-, FGC5373-, FGC5494-, FGC5798-, L1065-, L1335-, L2+, L21-, L23+, L238-, L278+, L371-, L389+, L408-, L47-, L48-, L51+, L513-, L584-, L617-, L881-, M1994-, M222-, M269+, M335-, M343+, M478-, M73-, MC14-, P297+, P310+, P311+, P312+, PF3252-, PF6610-, PF6714-, PF7562-, PF7589-, PF7600-, S1026-, S1051-, S11493-, S11601-, S12025-, S1567-, S16264-, S1688-, S18632-, S18827-, S6317-, S7721-, SRY2627-, U106-, U152+, U198-, V88-, Y5058-, Z156-, Z16500-, Z17-, Z17300-, Z18-, Z1862-, Z195-, Z198-, Z209-, Z2103-, Z2109-, Z225-, Z251-, Z253-, Z2542-, Z255-, Z2573-, Z295-, Z296-, Z3000-, Z301-, Z302-, Z326-, Z36-, Z367-, Z381-, Z49 *, Z8-, Z8052-, Z9-

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     Pigmon (03-01-2016)

  3. #2
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    Because L2 possibly came into existence 4500 years in ago...give or take, and probably was in Central Europe, it's had a long time to spread over much of Western Europe in multiple waves.

    I'm also L2, on a branch estimated to be 3000 years old with members from Britain, The Netherlands, Italy, France, and Spain. So even 1500 years after L2, there isn't a specific location where most members reside.

    My own opinion is L2 is associated with the Central European Bell Beaker Culture.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 03-01-2016 at 01:35 AM.
    Y DNA line continued: Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    35% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 5% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
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     MikeWhalen (03-01-2016),  Pigmon (03-01-2016)

  5. #3
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    Thank you, that sits with a lot of posts i've read so far (a lot of which were yours!). I realise it is difficult, and may ultimately be impossible to place L2 in a particular people. I am really just hoping to gain a better understanding of the likely general origin and spread so i can better understand the path of my ancestors. L2 came as a bit of a surprise as i'd expected R-L21.

    I hope to take the Big Y test once i can afford it which may help outline some better detail.

  6. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Bdeed For This Useful Post:

     MikeWhalen (03-01-2016),  MitchellSince1893 (03-01-2016),  Pigmon (03-01-2016)

  7. #4
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    Welcome Bdeed,

    I could not find your kit in FTDNA.

    Regards
    Paternal: R1b-U152+ L2+ BY4245+ BY3485+ BY3478+ , Giovanni Domenicus Rabai, b. 1609, Savona, Italy
    Maternal: Haplogroup H65, María García Martínez, b. 1746, Cuenca, Spain

    Manuel David Rabaez 1974, Manuel Rabaez 1948, Manuel Rabaez 1912, Antonio Rabay 1868, Antonio Rabay 1833, Manuel Rabay 1791, Manuel Rabay 1764, Pedro Rabai 1727, Pedro Joseph Rabai 1691, Giovanni Battista Rabai 1647, Jo. Domenicus Rabai 1609, Pietrus Rabai (work in progress...)

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     Pigmon (03-01-2016)

  9. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bdeed View Post
    Thank you, that sits with a lot of posts i've read so far (a lot of which were yours!). I realise it is difficult, and may ultimately be impossible to place L2 in a particular people. I am really just hoping to gain a better understanding of the likely general origin and spread so i can better understand the path of my ancestors. L2 came as a bit of a surprise as i'd expected R-L21.

    I hope to take the Big Y test once i can afford it which may help outline some better detail.
    The results of your BigY test will tell you much more...maybe not initially, but as more men take this test, or FGC's, the branches of the tree will be revealed. Before my old test results came out I too figured I was going to be L21 or possibly U106...statistically those two have the highest percentages of R1b in the UK.

    As to U152 in Britain, my opinion is it's primarily an Iron Age arrival e.g. Hallstatt, La Tene, and to lesser extent Belgae (doesn't appear very strong in the old Belgae tribal areas). Although there is no reason some U152 could not have arrived with Bell Beaker from Central Europe too.

    Additional arrivals were via the Romans and their auxiliaris (especially in northern England and southeastern Scotland), and with the Anglo-Saxon arrival (U152 is a small percentage of present day lower Saxony Germany and Jutland so I don't think this was a major factor), Normans and Flemish (U152 is significant in Northern France and Belgium), Huguenots (U152 is also significant in the rest of France) and later arrivals.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 03-01-2016 at 04:19 PM.
    Y DNA line continued: Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    35% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German, 5% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French/Dutch, 1% India
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     Pigmon (03-01-2016)

  11. #6
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    Hi Ravai. We may not be in the same project. I've just changed settings to public so you should see them now.

  12. #7
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    That's really useful again. Thank you. It certainly gives me something to research which is what I was after.

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