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Thread: Riccio/Rich: Could this be a surname match? Coincidence or not?

  1. #1
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    Riccio/Rich: Could this be a surname match? Coincidence or not?

    Hi all, I know that the odds are very low but I wanted to ask what you folks think about this coincidence:

    As some of you might already know my Riccio/Ricci line is South Italian stemming from the Molise region (a region founded by the French Norman family De Moulins that gave the region their name).

    I have an American match with English roots that has a very similar sounding surname. Here are the the two 37 marker haplotypes. Now this could be due to STR marker convergence and the similarity of the surnames just coincidence but what if not? According to Gerhard Rohlfs, an important linguist and specialist of Romance languages the surname Riccio/Ricci could corrispond at least in the former kingdom of Naples to the French Riche "rich" and not necessarily to the Italian meaning of Riccio "curly hair". As a matter of fact in the dialect of the region we pronounce Riccio/Ricci without the Italian final -o which makes it also phonetically very similar to the French or English Riche and Rich

    Riccio/Ricci E14371 Italy R-Z49 13 24 14 10 11-11 12 12 12 13 13 29 16 9-10 11 11 26 15 19 28 15-15-16-17 11 11 19-23 15 15 16 16 35-37 12 13
    Rich 370698 Unknown Origin R-M269 13 24 14 10 11-11 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9-10 11 11 26 15 19 28 15-15-16-17 11 11 19-23 15 15 17 17 37-38 11 12

    I know that especially within R1b such a haplotype similarity could be mere coincidence but what if not? What if my and my American Match's ancestor was a French Riche? Unfortunately the American sample hasn't tested any SNPs so all I have at the moment are the 37 marker haplotypes and the similar surnames...

    Is that too far fetched? What do you think?

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     Humanist (02-29-2016)

  3. #2
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    I can only approach this from the other end...ancient working toward present. On our shared branch and the one above we have:
    4 x Brits: Me, Roberts, Lincoln, Branch
    1 x Frenchman
    2 x Dutch
    1 x Spaniard
    1 x Italian (you)

    So geographically you are somewhat of an outlyer. Wouldn't surprise me if your surname turns out to be French.

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     Shamash (03-01-2016)

  5. #3
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    Yes, but your Paternal y-DNA is J1-FGC3706 according to your profile. Any STR match you have to R1b would not be valid.
    Former cold war era "silent warrior" - the top 1/2 of the top 1 percent of the U.S. Air Force Hidden Content
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    Current level of testing: R1b1a2a1a2b1c1 U152, L2, Z49, Z142 and Z12222/Z150*

    (BigY shows that a back mutation of PF214 make my closest Big Y matches Buffington, Smith, Lincoln and Mitchell)

  6. #4
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    Hi I'm talking about my maternal y-line as stated in my signature

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     King (03-01-2016)

  8. #5
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    Yes, that one would work.
    Former cold war era "silent warrior" - the top 1/2 of the top 1 percent of the U.S. Air Force Hidden Content
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    Current level of testing: R1b1a2a1a2b1c1 U152, L2, Z49, Z142 and Z12222/Z150*

    (BigY shows that a back mutation of PF214 make my closest Big Y matches Buffington, Smith, Lincoln and Mitchell)

  9. #6
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    United States of America Italy 1861-1946 Spain
    Do not forget however, that a lot of Italians changed their surnames to sound more Anglican after they came to America.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543 >> PR5365, Pietro Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  10. #7
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    Hi, I already contacted the admin of the Rich surname project and my possible match's background is English maybe even Jersey island or French Huguenot before arriving to the States but definitely not Italian or German. I would love to test him for some SNPs...
    Last edited by Shamash; 03-02-2016 at 02:06 PM.

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