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Thread: The Origin of Romanians (Vlachs)

  1. #181
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    Hi Dorkymon,
    I like the new possibilities and the new way of thinking that DNA opens up. And that's what Anthrogenica is for. I wouldn't bother with Boia.

  2. #182
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    Under the ottoman rule the Vlahs or Rumaeni known as old native people of Balkans under many tribe name or region names moved freely thru the land that is why you will find Vlahs in Greece , Albania , Bulgaria, Macedonia, Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia.
    Under the habsburg rule you will find blahs in Czech, Slovak, Polish lands.
    I left ukraine out of conversation this being a new made by soviets country from territories taken from Poland, romania etc , basically the romanians from south -central ukraine are old moldovan - vlah people .
    Why are the Vlachs so wide and numerously spread thru central -south Europe?
    The only people so wide spread like Vlachs are the germanic speaking nations .

  3. #183
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakonarius View Post
    I left ukraine out of conversation this being a new made by soviets country from territories taken from Poland, romania etc
    Ukraine has existed for over 1000 years, ever since it was called Kievan Rus. But like most countries, its borders have changed over the centuries. This map shows the Duchy of Ruthenia as defined by the 1658 Treaty of Hadiach. In contrast, this map shows the Kievan Rus at its height.

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  5. #184
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    Quote Originally Posted by Drakonarius View Post
    Under the ottoman rule the Vlahs or Rumaeni known as old native people of Balkans under many tribe name or region names moved freely thru the land that is why you will find Vlahs in Greece , Albania , Bulgaria, Macedonia, Serbia, Croatia, Bosnia.
    Under the habsburg rule you will find blahs in Czech, Slovak, Polish lands.
    I left ukraine out of conversation this being a new made by soviets country from territories taken from Poland, romania etc , basically the romanians from south -central ukraine are old moldovan - vlah people .
    Why are the Vlachs so wide and numerously spread thru central -south Europe?
    The only people so wide spread like Vlachs are the germanic speaking nations .
    I guess the vlahs were in so many places because, in fact, they were lots of different latinised populations of former the empire. from Pannonia, from Moesia, from Thracia ...

  6. #185
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    There is a detailed subclade breakdown for I2a-Din (L621>CTS10228) in Romania and Moldova.

    I2a-Din (CTS10228) frequencies out of total Y-DNA:

    • Romania ~ 28% (consistent with Eupedia, where there are more than 950 samples)

    • Moldova ~ 26% (21% on Eupedia, where there are only 125 samples)


    Subclade level

    I-S17250 (TMRCA 1750 ybp):

    • Romania ~ 9%

    • Moldova ~ 9.5%





    I-Y4460 (TMRCA 2100 ybp):

    • Romania ~ 9.5%

    • Moldova ~ 8%





    I-Z17855 (TMRCA 1450 ybp):

    • Romania ~ 9.5%

    • Moldova ~ 9%





    Out of these 3,

    • S17250 peaks by far in Serbo-Croatian speakers

    • Y4460 is linked to the territory North of the Balkans and is almost absent South of it

    • Z17855 might indicate a shared Thracian/Dacian/Illyrian or more realistically a proto-Romanian (Vlach) lineage, considering that it has a TMRCA of 1450 ybp



    Source
    Known ancestry: 1/2 Romanian Northeast + 1/4 Romanian Southeast + 1/4 Romanian Bukovina Ukraine
    23andme: 53.6% Greek & Balkan (4% Broadly South Euro), 35.7% East Euro, 0.3% Ashkenazi Jewish, 6.5% Broadly Euro
    MyHeritage: 92.2% Balkan, 5.8% English, 1.1% Eskimo, 0.9% Japanese
    FTDNA: 45% Southeast Euro, 45% East Euro, 4% British Isles, 3% West Middle East, 2% NE Asia
    Global 25: Anatolia_N 50.2%, EHG 32.6%, CHG 11.2%, WHG 3.8%, East Asian 2.2%
    Hidden Content

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  8. #186
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    Some Dacian/Getae helmets from Romania

    Agighiol, 4th century BC




    Peretu, 5th century BC






    Iron Gates, 4th century BC





    Cucuteni-Băiceni

    [img]https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-ranYtcXqQeI/Vq-VFxXN97I/AAAAAAAAMwo/T4oViQpce5A/s1600/1278.jpg[/img[


    Coţofeneşti, 4th century BC





    Last edited by Dorkymon; 08-31-2018 at 10:18 PM.
    Known ancestry: 1/2 Romanian Northeast + 1/4 Romanian Southeast + 1/4 Romanian Bukovina Ukraine
    23andme: 53.6% Greek & Balkan (4% Broadly South Euro), 35.7% East Euro, 0.3% Ashkenazi Jewish, 6.5% Broadly Euro
    MyHeritage: 92.2% Balkan, 5.8% English, 1.1% Eskimo, 0.9% Japanese
    FTDNA: 45% Southeast Euro, 45% East Euro, 4% British Isles, 3% West Middle East, 2% NE Asia
    Global 25: Anatolia_N 50.2%, EHG 32.6%, CHG 11.2%, WHG 3.8%, East Asian 2.2%
    Hidden Content

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  10. #187
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    For Dorkymon and the others, my Romanian results from 23andMe:

    romanian.JPG

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  12. #188
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    Quote Originally Posted by Illyro-Vlach View Post
    For Dorkymon and the others, my Romanian results from 23andMe:

    romanian.JPG
    Nice spread, especially that one down South around the administrative core of medieval Wallachia.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tārgoviște
    Known ancestry: 1/2 Romanian Northeast + 1/4 Romanian Southeast + 1/4 Romanian Bukovina Ukraine
    23andme: 53.6% Greek & Balkan (4% Broadly South Euro), 35.7% East Euro, 0.3% Ashkenazi Jewish, 6.5% Broadly Euro
    MyHeritage: 92.2% Balkan, 5.8% English, 1.1% Eskimo, 0.9% Japanese
    FTDNA: 45% Southeast Euro, 45% East Euro, 4% British Isles, 3% West Middle East, 2% NE Asia
    Global 25: Anatolia_N 50.2%, EHG 32.6%, CHG 11.2%, WHG 3.8%, East Asian 2.2%
    Hidden Content

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  14. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkymon View Post
    Nice spread, especially that one down South around the administrative core of medieval Wallachia.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tārgoviște
    Here's what's wild: the project I worked on in Romania not too long ago was in Dambovitza County which is my top result. The people there looked incredibly familiar. I know it's a stretch but this Romanian result has me really, really interested in investigating more, especially why I am getting them.

    Are there any histories of migrations to this area from south of the Danube?

  15. #190
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dorkymon View Post
    There is a detailed subclade breakdown for I2a-Din (L621>CTS10228) in Romania and Moldova.

    I2a-Din (CTS10228) frequencies out of total Y-DNA:

    • Romania ~ 28% (consistent with Eupedia, where there are more than 950 samples)

    • Moldova ~ 26% (21% on Eupedia, where there are only 125 samples)


    Subclade level

    I-S17250 (TMRCA 1750 ybp):

    • Romania ~ 9%

    • Moldova ~ 9.5%





    I-Y4460 (TMRCA 2100 ybp):

    • Romania ~ 9.5%

    • Moldova ~ 8%





    I-Z17855 (TMRCA 1450 ybp):

    • Romania ~ 9.5%

    • Moldova ~ 9%





    Out of these 3,

    • S17250 peaks by far in Serbo-Croatian speakers

    • Y4460 is linked to the territory North of the Balkans and is almost absent South of it

    • Z17855 might indicate a shared Thracian/Dacian/Illyrian or more realistically a proto-Romanian (Vlach) lineage, considering that it has a TMRCA of 1450 ybp



    Source
    I-Z17855 is clearly associated with the Slavic speakers as it's downstream of I-Y3120 with TMRCA of only 2200 ybp!
    If I-Z17855 is not Slavic, than neither all other subclades downstream of I-Y3120 are not Slavic either because they are too young, which I highly doubt it's true!
    So far, the oldest subclades downstream of I-Y3120 are one I-Y3120* from Southern Poland, I-Y4460 with clearly Northern Slavic distribution and predominance as seen on the YFULL tree: https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-Y4460/, and I-Y18331 which is associated with the Greeks.
    Of course, I-Y18331 is too young to be of ancient Greek origin and as it's TMRCA shows, it was absorbed in the Greek corpus around 2100 ybp or 100 BC!
    The oldest sample so far found upstream of I-Y3120, comes from France, on the border with Germany, TMRCA of 3600 ybp as seen on the YFULL tree: https://www.yfull.com/tree/I-CTS10228/!
    There is a huge bottle neck from 3600 ybp to 2200 ybp however by this point, it's very clear that the oldest samples and subclades as I-CTS10228*, I-Y3120* and I-Y4460 are found in North-Western Europe and in North-Eastern Slavic speaking countries and it seems almost certainly that I-Y3120 isn't Thraco-Dacian, not to mention even I-Z17855 which is much younger and which you describe as Dacian-Thracian!
    I-Z17855 it seems that we can associate it with the Slavic speakers that came from the North-Eastern part of the Balkans and today with the Romanians, Bulgarians and Macedonians!

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