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Thread: Miscellaneous Welsh Odds and Ends

  1. #211
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    Almost-Welsh story:

    My 9th great grandfather, George Davis (born in Cheshire in ~1616) made his way to Massachusetts, married Sarah Clark. After Davis's death and her remarriage to Nicholas Rist, as part of the Salem witch trials she was charged with witchcraft at age 72 thanks to testimony supplied by Rist!


    https://lindseyforster.com/2013/10/0...omment-page-1/
    George died in 1667 when Sarah was 57 years old. 4 or 5 years later she married Nicholas Rist. They appear to have had one son, [...]
    Rather than just marvel at Sarah's age at the time of birth, this should be investigated as a probable case of adoption.
    Maybe an unmarried daughter's (or granddaughter's) child.
    Or that of someone who died.
    Otherwise, I don't think there has been a historical case of such a late birth since Sarah in the Bible.

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  3. #212
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saetro View Post
    Rather than just marvel at Sarah's age at the time of birth, this should be investigated as a probable case of adoption.
    Maybe an unmarried daughter's (or granddaughter's) child.
    Or that of someone who died.
    Otherwise, I don't think there has been a historical case of such a late birth since Sarah in the Bible.
    Maybe she really did have magic powers

    Here's another account of the whole thing

    Sarah married George Davis, a weaver and ship owner, with whom she had 8 children. When their youngest was 5, George died. Soon after, Sarah married Nicholas Rist of Reading and had one child:

    Joseph Rist, born about 1671 in Reading, MA; died April 19, 1740 in Uxbridge, Worcester Co., MA; married to Phebe Richardson May 20, 1703 in Reading.

    When Sarah’s oldest son, Benjamin Davis, died in 1679, he willed his estate to Sarah, with the exception of two acres, which went to Benjamin’s sister.

    On May 28, 1692, a warrant for Sarah’s arrest on charges of witchcraft was issued at Salem, MA, evidently at the request of her husband, Nicholas Rist. In those days, the husband of a woman with property could snatch that property away by having her declared either insane or a witch. If she and Nicholas were not getting along, he may have tried this trick to get her land. Although Sarah was never tried for the crime, she was sent to prison in Boston along with Capt. John Alden, Jr. Four months later, in October, 1692, Nicholas must have had a change of heart, since he petitioned for her release. She was released and lived with her husband for another 5 years until her death.

    Sarah’s will, written September 20, 1697 and probated May 15, 1698, refers to “the worldly estate that my former husband George Davis and my son Benjamin Davis gave to me by their last wills for to dispose of, give and devise the same as follows: to grandson Joshua Davis, all ye Homestead…that is ye same that I now dwell in… with all the lotts, divisions and dividends…thereto belonging, Joshua to pay to my daughters the legacies hereafter mentioned: to daughter Sarah Cole, to daughter Hannah Boutell, to son-in-law Timothy Wylye, to daughter Mary Damon, to Susannah Richardson.”

    notes
    Sarah Clarke, b. 1662 at Kent, England and d. 14 July 1698 at Reading, Massachusetts, American Colonies. Sarah Clarke, m. 1643 to George Davice at Lynn, Massachusetts, American Colonies. After the death of George Davice in 1667, she re-married to Nicholas Rist. Sarah (Clarke) Davice, m. 1669 to Nicholas Rist at Reading, Massachusetts, American Colonies.

    She was assested for WitchCraft on 24 May 1692 in Salem, Massachusetts, American Colonies and was imprisoned in Boston, Massachusetts, American Colonies. on 31 May 1692. She was released from prison on the Petition of Nicholas Rist on 19 October 1692.
    https://www.geni.com/people/Sarah-Ri...00014667582229
    Last edited by Dewsloth; 02-14-2018 at 01:06 AM.
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112 (S17075-)

    Y-cousin: 6DRIF-23 (DF19>>Z17112+, S17075+)

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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  5. #213
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    Re: Salem, although I don't know any Welsh links, I have some ancestors (Richard Gardner and his wife Sarah Shattuck) who lived in Salem (as well as prior Gardners, as they were early settlers). They got essentially kicked out in the 1660s (excommunicated from the local church for attending Quaker meetings, which meant relocation was the best idea) and ended up in Nantucket (to intermarry with, among others, the Starbucks and Coffins whose names were among those real names used in Moby Dick).

    Sarah's brother Samuel was a Quaker who had been officially kicked out of Salem, on pain of death if he were to return, but he went with some other Massachusetts Bay Quakers to plead their case to Charles II, and returned victorious with a letter from the king saying that Quakers accused of crimes should be sent to England for trial (apparently phrased in a way I love, that "Quakers obnoxious to punishment by the laws" should be sent). The governor grudgingly said he would obey the royal order (reportedly Boston had greeted the news of the return with the cry "Shattuck and the devil have come"), but soon the order was ignored and Quakers were again subjected to local punishment.

    Shattuck's son, also Samuel, ended up being one of the accusers of Bridget Bishop, the first person to be executed as a witch in 1692.

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  7. #214
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    How to make Welsh cakes. In the old days these were made on a flat heavy metal plate with a handle known as a bakestone. Around here at least, the cakes themselves are sometimes called bakestones.


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  9. #215
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHowellsTyrfro View Post
    How to make Welsh cakes. In the old days these were made on a flat heavy metal plate with a handle known as a bakestone. Around here at least, the cakes themselves are sometimes called bakestones.
    Pice ar y maen in South Wales or Cacen Gri in the North, among other names. Meaning cakes on a stone or griddle cakes.

    Good idea John; just making a few for St Davids Day today. There are spices in my recipe - and less sugar.

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  11. #216
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dewsloth View Post
    Almost-Welsh story:

    My 9th great grandfather, George Davis (born in Cheshire in ~1616) made his way to Massachusetts, married Sarah Clark. After Davis's death and her remarriage to Nicholas Rist, as part of the Salem witch trials she was charged with witchcraft at age 72 thanks to testimony supplied by Rist!


    https://lindseyforster.com/2013/10/0...omment-page-1/

    I had read somewhere that there was little evidence of witch trials in Wales. The explanation given was that in Wales it wasn't witches or other humans who were blamed for the misfortunes that might be blames on witches in other cultures. Then I read that it had happened but that most of the evidence hadn't survived!

    So here is reference to some of the cases that are known: https://www.llgc.org.uk/en/discover/...-sessions-rec/

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  13. #217
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    Quote Originally Posted by Phoebe Watts View Post
    I had read somewhere that there was little evidence of witch trials in Wales. The explanation given was that in Wales it wasn't witches or other humans who were blamed for the misfortunes that might be blames on witches in other cultures. Then I read that it had happened but that most of the evidence hadn't survived!

    So here is reference to some of the cases that are known: https://www.llgc.org.uk/en/discover/...-sessions-rec/
    Maybe it's because many misfortunes were blamed on Fairies (seriously). People believed in fairies up to the 1800's I think and they were regarded with considerable fear. Sightings of fairies could signify a coming death, they were blamed for milk or cream going off and were believed to steal babies, replacing them with changelings. Fairy weddings and funerals were reported, even by educated people and clergymen.

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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHowellsTyrfro View Post
    Maybe it's because many misfortunes were blamed on Fairies (seriously). People believed in fairies up to the 1800's I think and they were regarded with considerable fear. Sightings of fairies could signify a coming death, they were blamed for milk or cream going off and were believed to steal babies, replacing them with changelings. Fairy weddings and funerals were reported, even by educated people and clergymen.
    I think there may be something in some of these old beliefs. Nearly two years ago I was driving my daughter to school throigh the Kent countryside and we spotted a wooden owl on the fence of a school in a nearby village (it is wooden, I've seen it every weekday since). It was the first time we'd noticed it and my daughter said to me that she thought it was real. We discussed it for a minute or so as we drove along, then fell silent. The next moment I jumped in my driving seat when an enormous owl swooped down right in front of the windscreen, followed a metre or two in front of us for a second or so and swooped off over a hedge and into a field. The wing span seemed extremely wide and I thought to myself: I hope this isn't an omen of some kind (remembering old stories of harbingers of death). My mother died a couple of weeks later. This might sound weird but it's a true story and I've wondered about it since. I've never seen another owl in the daytime anywhere, let alone where I live now. Maybe our ancestors knew a thing or too...
    Last edited by JonikW; 03-07-2018 at 12:06 AM. Reason: Clarity
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    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century

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  17. #219
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHowellsTyrfro View Post
    Maybe it's because many misfortunes were blamed on Fairies (seriously). People believed in fairies up to the 1800's I think and they were regarded with considerable fear. Sightings of fairies could signify a coming death, they were blamed for milk or cream going off and were believed to steal babies, replacing them with changelings. Fairy weddings and funerals were reported, even by educated people and clergymen.
    A world that is totally random and unexplainable is impossible to live in.
    We need reasons for things.
    Even if they are the wrong ones. They help us stay sane.
    Before germ theory, infections of various sorts were inexplicable.
    Some events still are.
    Blaming fairies can be better than blaming your neighbours.
    Last edited by Saetro; 03-07-2018 at 12:12 AM.

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  19. #220
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saetro View Post
    A world that is totally random and unexplainable is impossible to live in.
    We need reasons for things.
    Even if they are the wrong ones. They help us stay sane.
    Before germ theory, infections of various sorts were inexplicable.
    Some events still are.
    Blaming fairies can be better than blaming your neighbours.
    This is a local tale, Aberystruth is the Parish. At one time the area was said to be "infested" with fairies. There are still some anonymous people who leave offerings near waterfalls or springs.
    "To the phenomenon of fairy funerals as omens of death must now be added the appearance of fairy weddings. Our source, once again, is the indefatigable Edmund Jones. This time, the tale comes from his less well-known work, A Relation of Apparitions of Spirits in the County of Monmouth and the Principality of Wales, published in 1780:

    “The last Apparition of the Fairies in the Parish of Aberystruth, was in the fields of the Widow of Mr. Edmund Miles, not long before her death -Two men were moving [sic] hay in one of her fields, the Bedwellty side of the river Ebwy Fawr, (one of whom is now an eminent man in his religious life) very early in the morning; at which time they saw the chief Servant of the House coming through the field on the other side of the river, towards them, and like a marriage company of people with some bravery, in white aprons to meet him ; they met him and passed by, but of whom he seemed to them to take no notice. They asked the servant if he saw the marriage company? he said “No”, at the same time they could hardly think any marriage could come that way, and that time of the day. This certainly must have been Fairies, and was partly a pressage of Mrs. Miles's death, and partly it may be of the marriage of her daughter, the heiress of the estate after the death of her brother Mr. John Miles, with that servant: the account of the Fairies, resembling a marriage company, could not be kept a secret from Mrs Miles, which when she heard of it, gave her a deal of uneasiness, as she understood it as a pressage of her death, as indeed it was.” (3)

    http://aneurinleisure.org.uk/folklor...-blaenau-gwent

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