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Thread: Miscellaneous Welsh Odds and Ends

  1. #641
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    Kent
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    Isles Celto-Germanic
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    V
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    J1c2l
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b L21+ L371+
    Y-DNA (P)
    I1 Z140+ A21912+

    Wales England Cornwall Scotland Ireland Normandie
    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Here's the complete pedigree according to Genetic Homeland:

    M253>DF29>S243>BY151>L849>S2078>S2077>Y6375>Y6384> Y13945>BY40787>BY40607.

    Hope I didn't screw any of that up.
    Taking a look at the more recent SNPs and matches at YFull and FTDNA, there are fewer testers of Scandinavian origin than is the case with some other I1 subclades. So we are restricted to Britain at Y6375, which seems an informative SNP for the migration period as far as its TMRCA is concerned. Here the problem applies that many English testers pick the St George’s flag on YFull, which doesn’t give them the option of displaying which county their line was from. I can see a Cornwall there (Y13945) as well as a Gloucestershire downstream from your SNP. If I had to guess I would say a spread of your relative’s Y line with the Saxons is most likely (with my own I’d say the Angles because my immediate upstream matches are firmly in the north and east of England as well as Scandinavia for my terminal SNP). As we all know, these things are fraught with difficulty. One Y line could come over with the Angles, for example, to be followed a SNP or two later by someone from the Danish Vikings. So from Anglo-Saxon to Viking in a few generations. Any idea where the family was from and whether they’d been there for a long time?
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to JonikW For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (08-14-2019),  msmarjoribanks (08-14-2019),  rms2 (08-14-2019)

  3. #642
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    Dad: R1b/L21/DF63

    I collect ancestor YDNA when I can find them too (and I've asked various people to test). I have a Swedish line who I have YDNA on from 23andMe, but there break down is only R-Z19 (a subclade of R-U106). So far everyone else I've collected is also R-M269 (and the ones on FTDNA have not tested further). My dad is R-M269 and L21, but then a rarer subclade that supposedly is more European, so I'd just like to know if we can identify when his ancestors likely came to the UK. Someday we will have more matches.

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     JMcB (08-14-2019),  JonikW (08-14-2019),  rms2 (08-14-2019)

  5. #643
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    K1a1
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    R1b-DF27>DF83
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF41>FGC36981

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    Quote Originally Posted by msmarjoribanks View Post
    I collect ancestor YDNA when I can find them too (and I've asked various people to test). I have a Swedish line who I have YDNA on from 23andMe, but there break down is only R-Z19 (a subclade of R-U106). So far everyone else I've collected is also R-M269 (and the ones on FTDNA have not tested further). My dad is R-M269 and L21, but then a rarer subclade that supposedly is more European, so I'd just like to know if we can identify when his ancestors likely came to the UK. Someday we will have more matches.
    Looks like I might have found another one. One of my 4th great grandmothers on my dad's side was Sarah Stovall (b. 1777). Looks like her father's line was R1b-L270. Here's the phylogenetic pedigree on that one:

    L21>DF13>FGC11134>A353>Z16250>A114>CTS4466>S1115>F GC84010>A541>S1121>L270.

    CTS4466 apparently designates Irish Type II, but the immigrant (Bartholomew Stovall) came to North America from Surrey, England.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1

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     JMcB (08-14-2019),  JonikW (08-14-2019),  msmarjoribanks (08-14-2019)

  7. #644
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    Taking a look at the more recent SNPs and matches at YFull and FTDNA, there are fewer testers of Scandinavian origin than is the case with some other I1 subclades. So we are restricted to Britain at Y6375, which seems an informative SNP for the migration period as far as its TMRCA is concerned. Here the problem applies that many English testers pick the St George’s flag on YFull, which doesn’t give them the option of displaying which county their line was from. I can see a Cornwall there (Y13945) as well as a Gloucestershire downstream from your SNP. If I had to guess I would say a spread of your relative’s Y line with the Saxons is most likely (with my own I’d say the Angles because my immediate upstream matches are firmly in the north and east of England as well as Scandinavia for my terminal SNP). As we all know, these things are fraught with difficulty. One Y line could come over with the Angles, for example, to be followed a SNP or two later by someone from the Danish Vikings. So from Anglo-Saxon to Viking in a few generations. Any idea where the family was from and whether they’d been there for a long time?
    I-Y6375 is a subclade of the elusive I-Z63 which doesn't seem to follow any real pattern of distribution (like Angle or Norse). So far Z63 related SNPs have been found in Wielbark (allegedly) and a Lombard setting (debatable if the individual was ethnically Lombard, and not Gepid).

  8. The Following User Says Thank You to spruithean For This Useful Post:

     rms2 (08-19-2019)

  9. #645
    Gold Class Member
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    mtDNA (M)
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    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b L21+ L371+
    Y-DNA (P)
    I1 Z140+ A21912+

    Wales England Cornwall Scotland Ireland Normandie
    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    I-Y6375 is a subclade of the elusive I-Z63 which doesn't seem to follow any real pattern of distribution (like Angle or Norse). So far Z63 related SNPs have been found in Wielbark (allegedly) and a Lombard setting (debatable if the individual was ethnically Lombard, and not Gepid).
    Given that Z63 dates to shortly after modern I1 itself, I reckon the more recent subclades are the informative ones for working out possible routes to the Isles. We've still got a heck of a lot to learn, that's for sure.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

  10. The Following User Says Thank You to JonikW For This Useful Post:

     rms2 (08-19-2019)

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