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Thread: Miscellaneous Welsh Odds and Ends

  1. #201
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHowellsTyrfro View Post
    Apparently they've done a genetic study of Welsh sheep but haven't got around to the people. Have to get your priorities right.

    "Some breeds, such as the Black Welsh Mountain sheep, saw their genetic history mapped back to Scandinavia, meaning their genetic history is heavily influenced by the sheep brought to Wales by the Vikings. Other breeds, such as the Llandovery White Face, saw its roots stretch back even further to the colonisation of Britain by the Romans.
    The study even found that one particular breed of sheep, exclusively from the Lleyn peninsula in northwest Wales, can trace its genetics back to a single, small flock of sheep in Galway, Ireland from the early 19th century. This shows that traders and famers from that part of Ireland came to Wales for agricultural purposes more than 200 years ago."

    https://www.aber.ac.uk/en/news/archi...168102-en.html
    Well there are lots of sheep. Think I remember reading once that there were 12 million sheep in Wales in the 1990s (not sure how accurate that was), then foot and mouth cut the population in 2001. Still lots more sheep than people though!

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  3. #202
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    Quote Originally Posted by msmarjoribanks View Post
    Inspired by this discussion I spent some time sorting through my Ancestry matches on the Welsh side (I'd love to at least get Y-DNA tests from that side of the family if I can find a male line descendant who is interested), and I happened upon my first Ancestry match who seems to actually still be in Wales. Exciting, but so far I can't tell how he's related since almost his whole tree is Joneses and Humphreys and Owens and Evans and Griffiths and so on, and I have a bunch of the same names too (the curse of Welsh research). Locations don't help, since his tree right now seems mostly to go back to about the mid 1800s, which is when my family left Wales, and to be centered around Wrexham -- my family was from smaller places west of that in North Wales, so I suppose it makes sense some might have ended up there.

    With my Shropshire families I traced forward brothers and sisters of my ancestors who left to see what became of them (it was interesting to see how much migration there was both to larger towns in the area as people left farming and also to London), but I haven't tried to do this with my Welsh families and really should, it would be interesting if it's possible.
    It will be interesting to see what progress you make. I'm able to use one group of relatives called Jones who emigrated from rural Carmarthenshire in the 1850s, and the dozens of their descendants who match me on Ancestry, to triangulate back to the descendants of their siblings who stayed in Wales. It works for me in this case because the American cousins have accurate trees back to Carmarthenshire.

    It is far easier for me to indentify my relationship to somone who is partly of Welsh descent (and may have one or two Jones lines) than to the descendants of those who stayed in Wales and who may, like me, have more than ten Jones lines to the 1850s.

    So far I have only found new cousins, not new ancestors, in this way. Quite a few more UK and US based matches have popped up since the Christmas sale at Ancestry though, so perhaps I'll find some new ancestors soon.

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  5. #203
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    Quote Originally Posted by JohnHowellsTyrfro View Post
    Apparently they've done a genetic study of Welsh sheep but haven't got around to the people. Have to get your priorities right.

    "Some breeds, such as the Black Welsh Mountain sheep, saw their genetic history mapped back to Scandinavia, meaning their genetic history is heavily influenced by the sheep brought to Wales by the Vikings. Other breeds, such as the Llandovery White Face, saw its roots stretch back even further to the colonisation of Britain by the Romans.
    The study even found that one particular breed of sheep, exclusively from the Lleyn peninsula in northwest Wales, can trace its genetics back to a single, small flock of sheep in Galway, Ireland from the early 19th century. This shows that traders and famers from that part of Ireland came to Wales for agricultural purposes more than 200 years ago."

    https://www.aber.ac.uk/en/news/archi...168102-en.html
    Fascinating though? Further evidence of trading and contact with Ireland and Scandinavia.

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  7. #204
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    I started trying to trace some of my Welsh families forward to see if I could find a connection with the Welsh match and am finding it difficult so far, but I did happen upon the following record. I don't currently have any reason to think these Humphreys are related to mine (obviously a common name), but I am interested in the story behind this:

    From County of Montgomery, Record of All Persons Charged with Indictable Offenses, 1843

    Mary Humphreys, age 60
    Sarah Humphreys, age 30
    Ann Humphreys, age 33
    Catherine Humphreys, age 19
    Benjamin Humphreys, age 18

    All charged with assault on a peace officer. Tried at the County Session, June 29.

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  9. #205
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    Quote Originally Posted by msmarjoribanks View Post
    I started trying to trace some of my Welsh families forward to see if I could find a connection with the Welsh match and am finding it difficult so far, but I did happen upon the following record. I don't currently have any reason to think these Humphreys are related to mine (obviously a common name), but I am interested in the story behind this:

    From County of Montgomery, Record of All Persons Charged with Indictable Offenses, 1843

    Mary Humphreys, age 60
    Sarah Humphreys, age 30
    Ann Humphreys, age 33
    Catherine Humphreys, age 19
    Benjamin Humphreys, age 18

    All charged with assault on a peace officer. Tried at the County Session, June 29.
    My reason for doing family history is for the stories.
    So when one of these crops up for someone who is not related, I hope there is nothing else I need to be doing at the time.
    But following up stories about events like this might show the spirit of the times.
    Or it might be a story about someone who is a close neighbour, so they would have some contact with the story.

    Mind you, looking for newspaper reports on the surname Gedrych turned up an inheritance court case in Wales that was nothing to do with my line, and probably of no relevance whatsoever. So that one was left alone.

    Your Humphreys story looks interesting. Keep us posted.

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  11. #206
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    Quote Originally Posted by Saetro View Post
    My reason for doing family history is for the stories.
    So when one of these crops up for someone who is not related, I hope there is nothing else I need to be doing at the time.
    But following up stories about events like this might show the spirit of the times.
    Or it might be a story about someone who is a close neighbour, so they would have some contact with the story.

    Mind you, looking for newspaper reports on the surname Gedrych turned up an inheritance court case in Wales that was nothing to do with my line, and probably of no relevance whatsoever. So that one was left alone.

    Your Humphreys story looks interesting. Keep us posted.
    Totally agree, or the personal insight into a time and place, and like you it doesn't actually have to be a relative, that's just a way to pick places to focus on and one way into a different time.

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  13. #207
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    Quote Originally Posted by msmarjoribanks View Post
    I started trying to trace some of my Welsh families forward to see if I could find a connection with the Welsh match and am finding it difficult so far, but I did happen upon the following record. I don't currently have any reason to think these Humphreys are related to mine (obviously a common name), but I am interested in the story behind this:

    From County of Montgomery, Record of All Persons Charged with Indictable Offenses, 1843

    Mary Humphreys, age 60
    Sarah Humphreys, age 30
    Ann Humphreys, age 33
    Catherine Humphreys, age 19
    Benjamin Humphreys, age 18

    All charged with assault on a peace officer. Tried at the County Session, June 29.
    It's a little late (and inland) for a family trying to fight off a press gang.

    There is no basis to the widespread impression that civilians without any seafaring background were randomly seized from home, country lane or workplace by press gangs or that the latter were employed inland away from coastal ports.[11] There were however occasions when the local populace would band together to oppose the activities of the press. One such incident, the Easton Massacre, resulted in a press gang firing on a crowd, killing four people in the village of Easton on the Isle of Portland, where they were trying to impress the quarrymen.
    Last edited by Dewsloth; 02-12-2018 at 11:09 PM.
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saetro View Post
    My reason for doing family history is for the stories.
    Quote Originally Posted by msmarjoribanks View Post
    Totally agree, or the personal insight into a time and place, and like you it doesn't actually have to be a relative, that's just a way to pick places to focus on and one way into a different time.
    Almost-Welsh story:

    My 9th great grandfather, George Davis (born in Cheshire in ~1616) made his way to Massachusetts, married Sarah Clark. After Davis's death and her remarriage to Nicholas Rist, as part of the Salem witch trials she was charged with witchcraft at age 72 thanks to testimony supplied by Rist!

    Sarah married George Davis when she was 22 and had 10 children with him, one of whom was named Joseph. George died in 1667 when Sarah was 57 years old. 4 or 5 years later she married Nicholas Rist. They appear to have had one son, [...]

    And then, if 10 children wasn’t enough, in 1692, at the age of 72, she got into real trouble. She was charged with witchcraft and arrested on May 26 and spent 5 months in jail waiting for trial.

    The Salem witchcraft trials concluded with the final hanging of accused witches on September 22, 1692. She was, thankfully, not either tried or hanged and her husband Nicholas bailed her out of jail in late October. She died about 5 years later and left a will. We have some small details of that will.
    https://lindseyforster.com/2013/10/0...omment-page-1/
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112>BY44243

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Thomas Gunn (DF19) b1605; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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  17. #209
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    I found a few cases involving my ancestors but mainly petty offences like drunkenness, weights and measures, and riding on a cart(instead of walking beside the horse). That last one most of all.

    You can search the database for the Court of Great Sessions in Wales for 1730 to 1830 at:

    https://www.llgc.org.uk/sesiwn_fawr/sf_s.php

    These cases tend to be more serious than the crimes tried at the Courts of Quarter Sessions at each county.

    I found two 5xgreat grandparents and their son, all charged with assault in 1779. They were found not guilty. I as able to find out a bit more in local records and it seems that the family were in dispute with the man who brought the charges. It looks as if he sold them a piece of land without disclosing that a third party had built a house on the land.
    Last edited by Phoebe Watts; 02-13-2018 at 05:58 PM.

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  19. #210
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    That is a great site. No Humphreys I recognize, but this one stood out as in need of backstory (or inspiration for a novel):

    Accused John Humphreys; Parish: Meifod; County: Montgomery; Status: Yeoman

    Offence Burglary of prosecutor's house and stealing wearing apparel and cloth. The stolen regimental breeches were recognized by the prosecutor as it 'appeared to be cut off one knee' to accomodate his wooden leg. Prosecutor formerly of the Royal Regiment of Artillery. Prisoner aged 25.

    Location and date Parish: Meifod; County: Montgomery; Date: 22 November 1815

    Prosecutor David Price, soldier

    Plea Not guilty.
    Verdict Not guilty.

    File number 4/200/7
    Document number 33
    Other documents E, Ca (Key)

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