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Thread: Miscellaneous Welsh Odds and Ends

  1. #531
    Gold Class Member
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    Virginia, USA
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    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF41>FGC36981
    mtDNA (M)
    U5a2c3a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-DF27>DF83
    mtDNA (P)
    K1a1a

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    Quote Originally Posted by msmarjoribanks View Post
    How many of those did you encourage to test, if any?

    My dad currently has 2 matches at 67 (6 and 7 GD, and they have different versions of the same surname, but a different one than my father's, although also a patronymic). (Although these are distant, they might be worth testing given the low numbers of DF63, and that they are likely to be DF63, although who knows.)

    He has 3 37 matches, at 0, 2, and 3 GD. The 0 is in a surname project (no matches, and none of the surnames of the 37 matches are the same as my dad's or as the 67-marker matches), and has no matches in that project.

    Ideas in how to progress? I would like to convince the 37 matches to test further, but none have responded to my suggestions. I've thought about getting my English cousins to test if I can find them, but am not sure what that would get me. I can find my US cousins (2nd or 3rd of mine), but not sure the point/what that would achieve.
    Let's see. My dad and my two sons are absolutely my doing, because I paid for their tests. For my dad, I did the Geno 2.0, so he only has 12 y-dna markers and is SNP tested only as far as CTS2501, which is just below Z39589, on the DF41 level. My second cousin once removed Mark came in on his own as a surprise exact 12-marker match who then upgraded to 37 markers and eventually did an a la carte SNP test for FGC36982, which is one step above my current terminal SNP (Mark hasn't tested for FGC36981 yet - it's a fairly new discovery). I recruited another second cousin once removed, Preston, who was only willing to go as far as 37 markers and is an exact match there. Preston has given me permission to upgrade his sample as I see fit, however. I recruited my second cousin Paul (his grandfather and mine were brothers and are buried alongside their father, my great grandfather), but that took years, because at first he thought dna testing was like searching for a needle in a haystack. Once he saw the information I had turned up, however, he went whole hog and did the Big Y-500 and Family Finder.

    Those were all known family members.

    My closest same-surname match aside from known family I recruited from Ancestry not knowing whether he would match me at all. He was wary at first, but once the initial 111 markers came in, he really became enthusiastic and did the Big Y-500. He is now my partner in crime when it comes to sponsoring tests and paper trail research. I believe he is my fifth cousin, but that awaits confirmation.

    I recruited another 111-marker match from Ancestry because the paper trail showed he is a descendant of Benjamin Stevens, who was born 1737 in Ellicott City, Maryland, but who died in 1811 in Fayette County, PA. Benjamin isn't supposed to be my own direct y-dna ancestor but is probably the brother or a cousin of my likely y-dna ancestor. When I recruited this gentleman I likewise had no real guarantee that he would match me, but then another descendant of the same Benjamin popped up on his own, without being recruited by me, and likewise turned out to be a 111-marker match. That second descendant of Benjamin has since done the Big Y-500 and is derived for FGC36974, which is the SNP that characterizes all the Stephens/Stevens men thus far but is a couple steps back upstream from my current terminal SNP.

    So, I only recruited two Stevenses who weren't known family members, and one of the known family members, Mark, popped up on his own as an exact 12-marker match who later upgraded (as I mentioned).

    Of the rest with my surname, nine arrived as matches completely on their own, out of the blue, and were men who were unknown to me before showing up as y-dna matches. I have since gotten to know them and have encouraged testing upgrades. Of those, six have done the Big Y-500.

    I did not include my old exact 12-marker match buddy who has yet to respond to my email.

    When it comes to the members of my cluster who do not share my surname, the only recruiting I recall doing with any of them was to suggest upgrades. I did pay to bring one of my Beddoes matches up from an exact 12-marker match to a 65/67 match. After that, I lost him. He may have passed away, since he was already quite elderly when he first showed up as an exact 12-marker match. I have a second Beddoes match who likewise arrived on his own but as a 36/37 match, but I lost touch with him, as well. The real obstacle with anyone with that surname is the guy who runs the Beddows/Beddoes project. He has an absolutely stupid, block-headed mania for privacy with which he infects all those with that surname who come into contact with him. It's aggravating, and he isn't even a match for my Beddoes and me.

    BTW, both my Beddoes matches are UK citizens born and raised in far western England right on the Welsh border, and that is a Welsh surname.

    My Samuel 111-marker match also came in initially as an exact 12-marker match. He's a retired college professor. Once I contacted him he became enthusiastic and likewise went all out for the Big Y-500. One of the nice things about that match is that Samuel can solidly trace his ancestor to the village of Llanafan Fawr, Radnorshire, Wales.

    I could continue on, but over the years I have pushed and prodded and encouraged my members to upgrade. I have also contacted probably hundreds of people via the old YSearch and on Ancestry to test who never came through.
    Last edited by rms2; 12-24-2018 at 05:17 PM.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY168> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1a

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to rms2 For This Useful Post:

     jdean (12-24-2018),  JonikW (12-24-2018),  msmarjoribanks (12-24-2018)

  3. #532
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    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF41>FGC36981
    mtDNA (M)
    U5a2c3a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-DF27>DF83
    mtDNA (P)
    K1a1a

    Wales Ireland Scotland France Bretagne England Switzerland
    Of the matches mentioned above, four have the Stephens version of the spelling of my surname, which is Stevens. Stephens, I believe, was the original spelling. Only two of the ph fellows have done the Big Y-500. Both are derived for FGC36974, which all of us Stevens/Stephens who have tested are derived for, but which the other members of our cluster are ancestral for. My own terminal SNP is two steps downstream: FGC36974>FGC36982>FGC36981. FGC36982 appears to characterize the specific branch I'm on, and FGC36981 may have first appeared with my own y-chromosome great grandfather, but that awaits testing of either or both of my two second cousins once removed, neither of whom is descended from my great grandfather. The mrca we share is my second great grandfather (their great grandfather - hence the "once removed" part).

    Like I said, I think my immigrant ancestor was pretty prolific. There's a whole bunch of our relatives with the ph spelling over in Fort Valley at the northern end of the Shenandoah Valley of Virginia, mostly farmers and businessmen. Thus far no one has been able to talk any of them into any kind of dna testing, however.
    Last edited by rms2; 12-24-2018 at 05:25 PM.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY168> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1a

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     JonikW (12-24-2018)

  5. #533
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    Y-DNA (P)
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    mtDNA (M)
    U5a2c3a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-DF27>DF83
    mtDNA (P)
    K1a1a

    Wales Ireland Scotland France Bretagne England Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    I wonder the same after testing my late mother's Jones line (my grandfather's) when I found her first cousin by matching him on Gedmatch and MyHeritage. (I posted on it earlier.) The YSEQ test I got for him showed they are L371 > BY11922 - so very Welsh - but I don't know how to proceed or whether there's anything more to be gained.
    Has he tested with FTDNA so that you can see his STR matches? How about Family Finder and/or Ancestry? Those places provide leads that can be followed up.

    It doesn't look like there is an L371 Project, which is surprising.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY168> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1a

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     JonikW (12-24-2018)

  7. #534
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    Kent
    Ethnicity
    Isles Celto-Germanic
    Nationality
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    Y-DNA (P)
    I1 Z140+ A21912+
    mtDNA (M)
    V
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b L21+ L371+
    mtDNA (P)
    J1c2l

    Wales England Cornwall Scotland Ireland Normandie
    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Has he tested with FTDNA so that you can see his STR matches? How about Family Finder and/or Ancestry? Those places provide leads that can be followed up.

    It doesn't look like there is an L371 Project, which is surprising.
    He's only tested MyHeritage and YSEQ and won't test any further now. He's in his late eighties. I wrote to the guy heading one of the YSEQ projects, or whatever they call them there, and had no reply. I also wrote to an FTDNA project with some L371 testers but also no response. Guess that's it then.
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    Wales-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    North England-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales
    Mother's Y: traces to Llanvair Discoed, Wales

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     rms2 (12-25-2018)

  9. #535
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    mtDNA (M)
    U5a2c3a
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    R1b-DF27>DF83
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    K1a1a

    Wales Ireland Scotland France Bretagne England Switzerland
    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    He's only tested MyHeritage and YSEQ and won't test any further now. He's in his late eighties. I wrote to the guy heading one of the YSEQ projects, or whatever they call them there, and had no reply. I also wrote to an FTDNA project with some L371 testers but also no response. Guess that's it then.
    You ought to see if you can't get one more test out of your relative and go with FTDNA.
    Last edited by rms2; 12-24-2018 at 08:30 PM.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY168> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1a

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     JonikW (12-24-2018)

  11. #536
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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Of the matches mentioned above, four have the Stephens version of the spelling of my surname, which is Stevens. Stephens, I believe, was the original spelling.
    I have Stephens down in Cornwall.
    Many of them vary the spelling through different documents during their own lifetime.
    For them, Stevens is an occasional variant and I can draw nothing much from its use.

    Other names sometimes favoured one particular spelling at a certain time and in a certain area so can be used to distinguish between different lines.
    Not my Stephens. And of course they delight in using the same first names repeatedly.
    Even those who take their name from St Stephen's in Brannell, call themselves Branwell and Bramwell in an inconsistent way. There are fewer of them but the same sorts of puzzles of identity remain.

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  13. #537
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    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF41>FGC36981
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    U5a2c3a
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    K1a1a

    Wales Ireland Scotland France Bretagne England Switzerland
    From what I have seen, the v and ph spelling variants were used interchangeably, depending on who was doing the spelling. Iíve seen both spellings used in the same document.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY168> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1a

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  15. #538
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    mixed European
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    Dad: R1b/L21/DF63
    mtDNA (M)
    K2b2
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-M269
    mtDNA (P)
    K2b1a1a

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    Quote Originally Posted by Saetro View Post
    I have Stephens down in Cornwall.
    Many of them vary the spelling through different documents during their own lifetime.
    For them, Stevens is an occasional variant and I can draw nothing much from its use.
    My Hawes family intermarried with some Stephens in Ohio and then Nebraska, and similarly they varied it throughout their lifetimes (this was mid 1800s). Ultimately two brothers ended up with different spellings. (Same with the Hawes/Haws.)

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  17. #539
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    Y-DNA (P)
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    U5a2c3a
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    K1a1a

    Wales Ireland Scotland France Bretagne England Switzerland
    Even though the ph and v variants of Stephens/Stevens are often used interchangeably, there does seem to be a difference in their frequency and distribution in Britain.

    Stephens map.jpg Stevens map.jpg

    Since my matches who can trace their ancestry across the Pond are all Welsh, and my haplotype cluster is predominantly Welsh, the Stephens distribution appears to be the more accurate of the two for my line.
    Last edited by rms2; 12-28-2018 at 01:37 AM.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY168> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1a

  18. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to rms2 For This Useful Post:

     JonikW (12-28-2018),  msmarjoribanks (12-28-2018),  Phoebe Watts (12-30-2018),  Saetro (12-29-2018)

  19. #540
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    My mother's maiden surname isn't very common. It appears to be a Devonshire name, although my immigrant ancestor on that side was born in Malmesbury, Wiltshire.

    Gist map.jpg

    There does seem to be a little orange spot in Wiltshire, though.
    Last edited by rms2; 12-29-2018 at 03:28 PM.
     


    Hidden Content


    Y-DNA: R1b-L21> DF13> Z39589> DF41> FGC5572> BY168> BY166> FGC36974> FGC36982> FGC36981

    Additional Data:
    Lactase Persistent:
    rs4988235 AA (13910 TT)
    rs182549 TT (22018 AA)

    Red Hair Carrier:
    Arg160Trp+ (rs1805008 T) aka R160W

    Dad's mtDNA: K1a1a

  20. The Following User Says Thank You to rms2 For This Useful Post:

     JonikW (12-29-2018)

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