Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 42

Thread: A manís discovery of bones under his pub could forever change what we know...

  1. #21
    Users Awaiting Email Confirmation
    Posts
    853
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Italian

    Italy
    Quote Originally Posted by Dubhthach View Post
    I think some form of Proto-IE definetly arrived with Bell Beaker, but I think it's probably too early for differentiation into Proto-Celtic, the fact that we see non Celtic Indo-European languages surviving in Bell Beaker zone up till quite late (Lusitanian for example, or arguments about word Partraige/Partan pointing at non-Celtic language surviving in Ireland up until 6th century) makes me think that Proto-Celtic is probably more of a language of mid/Late bronze age. (basically arose in successors to Bell Beaker period)
    I think the same thing: the ancient languages we know were documentally recorded, directly or not directly. Other languages could easily have been lost in time, at a point in which nobody could have recorded them.

  2. #22
    Registered Users
    Posts
    846
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-S1051 9919-A
    mtDNA (M)
    U5b1e

    Canada United States of America United Kingdom France Ukraine
    Is there anything to indicate that "recent DNA testing" has revealed the pub remains are positive for DF13?

    George

  3. #23
    Legacy Account
    Posts
    7,362
    Sex
    Location
    United Kingdom
    Nationality
    British
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    United Kingdom
    Quote Originally Posted by George Chandler View Post
    Is there anything to indicate that "recent DNA testing" has revealed the pub remains are positive for DF13?
    The results are online in my ancient DNA tables. http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/ancientdna.shtml Just scan for Rathlin.

    Rathlin1 R1b1a2a1a2c1g L21/M529/S145 > DF13/S521 > DF21/S192

    Rathlin2 R1b1a2a1a2c1 L21/M529/S145 > DF13/S521

    Rathlin3 R1b1a2a1a2c L21/M529/S145

    These results were posted here on 28 December 2015: http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...l=1#post129495
    Last edited by Jean M; 03-19-2016 at 09:40 PM.

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Jean M For This Useful Post:

     Saetro (03-20-2016),  Tomenable (03-20-2016)

  5. #24
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    4,480
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Jewish & British
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-Z18271
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c5
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-U152
    mtDNA (P)
    U7a5

    Israel Israel Jerusalem United Kingdom England Scotland Isle of Man
    Quote Originally Posted by Dubhthach View Post
    I think some form of Proto-IE definetly arrived with Bell Beaker, but I think it's probably too early for differentiation into Proto-Celtic, the fact that we see non Celtic Indo-European languages surviving in Bell Beaker zone up till quite late (Lusitanian for example, or arguments about word Partraige/Partan pointing at non-Celtic language surviving in Ireland up until 6th century) makes me think that Proto-Celtic is probably more of a language of mid/Late bronze age. (basically arose in successors to Bell Beaker period)
    My thoughts exactly, Ligurian is another example alongside Lusitanian, these languages are likely remnants of the earlier para-Italo-Celtic dialects spoken all over Western Europe throughout the Bronze Age. The sheer similarity of these languages to Proto-Celtic would've enabled a language leveling process to occur. And yes, Proto-Celtic unity definitely goes back to the LBA.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to Agamemnon For This Useful Post:

     Jean M (03-19-2016),  rms2 (03-20-2016)

  7. #25
    Registered Users
    Posts
    846
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-S1051 9919-A
    mtDNA (M)
    U5b1e

    Canada United States of America United Kingdom France Ukraine
    Thanks Jean. I must have missed the new results coming last Dec. So number 3 was definitely negative for DF13 or just not tested to that level yet?

    George

  8. #26
    Registered Users
    Posts
    33
    Sex
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Ethnicity
    SCT, IRL, DE, ENG
    Nationality
    United States
    Y-DNA (P)
    DF49 x M222

    United States of America Northern Ireland Scotland Ireland Germany England
    Nosing around the appendix, it appears to me that there was in fact some very interesting downstream SNP signal detected
    (even as far downstream as M222!, which I might add implies DF49 DF23 ), but that the noise to signal-strength ratio was too high to call.

    "S8: Y Chromosome Analysis," appears on pgs 28-31 of the Supplemental Information Appendix. In particular, see the bottom of pg 28 et seq,
    "One particular subclade of M529 [L21], defined by the mutation M222 (52 [Myres NM, et al. (2011) A major Y-chromosome haplogroup R1b Holocene era founder effect in Central and Western Europe. Eur J Hum Genet 19(1):95Ė101.]), has a distribution which in the present day is considerably restricted to Ireland. Rathlin1, however, the only sample with reads covering SNP M222, presents the ancestral allele at this position....
    Rathlin SI Appendix Table S8.1 + M222 Data.jpg

  9. #27
    Registered Users
    Posts
    33
    Sex
    Location
    Columbus, Ohio
    Ethnicity
    SCT, IRL, DE, ENG
    Nationality
    United States
    Y-DNA (P)
    DF49 x M222

    United States of America Northern Ireland Scotland Ireland Germany England
    However, just noticed that they called Rathlin1 as DF21, which doesn't make sense to me that there was valid downstream M222 signal detected from the same body. Could this represent investigator contamination?

  10. #28
    Registered Users
    Posts
    2,138
    Sex
    Location
    UK
    Nationality
    Welsh
    Y-DNA (P)
    R-DF49
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c2e

    European Union
    Quote Originally Posted by brimcmike View Post
    Rathlin1, however, the only sample with reads covering SNP M222, presents the ancestral allele at this position....
    Scientists never like talking in plain English and 'ancestral allele' means Rathlin1 was negative for M222.

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to jdean For This Useful Post:

     Dubhthach (03-20-2016),  rms2 (03-20-2016)

  12. #29
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,778
    Sex
    Location
    Dķn Laoire, BlŠth Cliath, …ire
    Ethnicity
    Gael
    Nationality
    …ireanach
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF41
    mtDNA (M)
    U4d3

    Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    My thoughts exactly, Ligurian is another example alongside Lusitanian, these languages are likely remnants of the earlier para-Italo-Celtic dialects spoken all over Western Europe throughout the Bronze Age. The sheer similarity of these languages to Proto-Celtic would've enabled a language leveling process to occur. And yes, Proto-Celtic unity definitely goes back to the LBA.
    Indeed, of course on other end of extreme Schrijver in some of his recent works claims Irish only arrived in Ireland circa 1st century AD. Which doesn't make sense to me from an archaelogical point of view let alone fact that there isn't any accounts of a Q-Celtic language surviving in Britain that late (classical sources etc.)
    (R1b-DF41+)
    (MtDNA: U4d3)

    How to pronounce my username (modern Irish):
    Hidden Content

  13. #30
    Registered Users
    Posts
    1,778
    Sex
    Location
    Dķn Laoire, BlŠth Cliath, …ire
    Ethnicity
    Gael
    Nationality
    …ireanach
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-DF41
    mtDNA (M)
    U4d3

    Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by jdean View Post
    Scientists never like talking in plain English and 'ancestral allele' means Rathlin1 was negative for M222.
    Indeed the two relevant terms to watch out for is "ancestral" and "derived"
    (R1b-DF41+)
    (MtDNA: U4d3)

    How to pronounce my username (modern Irish):
    Hidden Content

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-16-2017, 01:19 PM
  2. Game of Bones
    By JohnHowellsTyrfro in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 08-15-2017, 12:36 PM
  3. Why Ireland? Process Taking Forever
    By 1/2finn in forum AncestryDNA
    Replies: 11
    Last Post: 06-28-2016, 05:56 PM

Tags for this Thread

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •