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Thread: Hunter-gatherer skin colour

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    It was nearly fixed in R1a-heavy Bronze Age populations as far east as Altai Mountains & Xinjiang.

    Did those populations have any WHG ancestry? Rather mostly Steppe + a small amount of EEF.
    Mostly Steppe+minority Anatolia Neolithic. IMO, WHG peaks at 20-30% in Balts. Anatolia_Neolithic and Steppe are most important.

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  3. #22
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    So far common denominators appear to be Y-DNA hg J and mtDNA H, which were present - albeit at low frequencies- in both EHG Russia and ENF Anatolia.

    Some type of R1 could also be present in Neolithic Anatolia, namely R1b-V88.

    So R1 could be another marker in common between EHG and ENF.
    There's lots of common denominators besides Y DNA J and mtDNA H. They're both from Kostinki-like people.

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  5. #23
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    This thread has been separated from the News thread since it was going off on a tangent.
     

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    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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  7. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krefter View Post
    SLC24A5(rs1426654) probably existed 15,000+ years ago at high frequencies or fixation(100%) throughout West Eurasia and North Asia.
    Ancestral Journeys shows that the ancestral (darker-skinned) allele for SLC24A5 was present in Luxembourg (6100 BC), Spain (5800 BC), and Sweden (2400 BC).

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  9. #25
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krefter View Post
    There's lots of common denominators besides Y DNA J and mtDNA H. They're both from Kostinki-like people.
    But Kostinki14 himself was dark-skinned. He lived 36,000 ybp, so actually too early for light skin mutations.

    But Kostinki-like is pretty much what has been called "Caucasoid" metapopulation (Western Eurasian populations).

    On the other hand Ust'-Ishim represented people with whom modern East Asians are more closely related.

    Check:

    https://www.genomeweb.com/sequencing...ean-population

    http://science.sciencemag.org/conten...;346/6213/1113

    Also:

    1) Kostinki14:



    2) Ust'-Ishim:

    Last edited by Tomenable; 03-20-2016 at 07:15 PM.

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  11. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by lgmayka View Post
    Ancestral Journeys shows that the ancestral (darker-skinned) allele for SLC24A5 was present in Luxembourg (6100 BC), Spain (5800 BC), and Sweden (2400 BC).
    Yes, but a high frequency of people in Sweden, Russia, Turkey, and Caucasus had it 8,000 years ago. A dude from the Caucasus from 13,000 years ago had it. The common ancestors of all those people probably lived before the Ice age. So, SLC24A5 and SLC45A2 have been around for a long time.

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  13. #27
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    So, SLC24A5 and SLC45A2 have been around for a long time.
    SLC24A5 is certainly older, or at least became widespread much earlier.

    It is present today in populations of the Horn of Africa, unlike SLC45A2.

    CHG (Kotias and the other guy) had SLC24A5, but didn't have SLC45A2.

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  15. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krefter View Post
    There's lots of common denominators besides Y DNA J and mtDNA H. They're both from Kostinki-like people.
    Y-DNA haplogroup J and mtDNA haplogroup H from ''Kostinki-like people''? Can you explain this in more detail please?

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  17. #29
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    As an aside to your discussion of ancient Hunter-Gatherer skin color, my modern pigmentation genetics are slightly quirky. My paternal line appears to persist through at least my grandfather with mixed alleles for RS16891982 (CG), apparently rare in Europeans (and especially NW Europeans). Although more muted in me as my mother was fair-skinned and fair-haired, we have light eyes but skin that is more tolerant of tanning than is the norm for those of British descent. My father's sister had 3 children, with 2 inheriting this ability to tan. Possibly there is New World admixture with a Native Amerindian population as I show 1% NA in all modes at 23andMe.

    I would argue that the skin pigmentation was a favorable adaption for our ancestors who emigrated to around the 35th longitude from roughly 60 - 65 longitude in Britain. The term "Red Neck" literally originated around the Scottish farmer suffering in the mid-day, Southern heat and humidity! However, the skin tanning in conjunction with light eyes ... not the most advantageous pigmentation pairing in my mind ... at least before the invention of sun glasses. La Brana likely suffered a similar fate with developing eye cataracts in his light eyes far sooner than skin cancer with his darker skin.

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  19. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by Krefter View Post
    SLC24A5(rs1426654) probably existed 15,000+ years ago at high frequencies or fixation(100%) throughout West Eurasia and North Asia. SLC45A2(rs16891982) was already widespread and popular 8,000 years ago in genetically very differnt people. This points to a distant pre-Ice age origin of both mutations, which probably wasn't in EHG territory(since EHG is certainly a post-Ice age hyprid).

    Hando none of them(CHG, WHG, EHG, EEF) had modern-like frequencies and none of them can be the sole source of these mutations, because modern Europeans aren't 50%+ WHG, or 50%+ CHG, or 50%+ EEF, or 50%+ EHG. Post-6000 BC Natural selection is in play, there's no doubt about it. What we need to look at in terms of evolution/adaption/natural selection is Late Neolithic Europe. The point at which SLC45A2(rs16891982) reached fixation in Europe was the Late Neolithic(~2800 BC) in EEF/WHG/Steppe hyprids(People just like modern Europeans).



    The weird thing is. Yamnaya had roughly the same allele frequencies in pigmentation as Turkish or Armenian. However, Andronovo who was about 80% Yamnaya-like, had the same allele frequencies in pigmentation SNPs as Northern Europeans.

    So it's pretty obvious, instead evolution occurred somewhere between Germany and Russia and between 3500 and 2800 BC.
    Thanks Krefter.
    when you say "fixation" do you mean light skin existed 15,000 years ago? I ask this because you use the term fixation to state "SLC45A2(rs16891982) reached fixation in Europe was the Late Neolithic(~2800 BC) "
    Or do you mean that light skin pigmentation only started in the late Neolithic around 2,800 BC?
    Also, do you mean that Andronovo had similar light skin as modern Northern Europeans, while Yamnaya had similar skin colour as modern Armenians and Turks?
    Thanks

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