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Thread: What is the origin of R1b found among Cameroonian and Chadic populations?

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    What is the origin of R1b found among Cameroonian and Chadic populations?

    What is the origin of R1b found in West Central Africa among Cameroonian and Chadic populations?

    I found it very interesting that R1b also exist in high frequencies in Sub-Saharan Africa among these ethnic groups!

    Are all R1b of Eurasian origin including the Cameroonian and Chadic ones?

    Does this mean that many Cameroonian and Chadic populations have origins from Eurasia? If I am wrong, please correct me.

    Thank you very much!:
    Last edited by Tsakhur; 04-02-2016 at 08:32 AM.

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    They are R-V88, having migrated from central Eurasia around 10,000 years ago (by current estimates), returning to the Arabian peninsula and westward into northern Africa, and then northward across the Mediterranean Sea via the Gibraltar Straight (which may have been a land bridge at the time) into Iberia, intermingling with local populations along the way.

    R-V88 descends from R-M415, who originated somewhere in central Eurasia within a few thousand years after the end of the Last Glacial Maximum.

    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/11910562
    http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2987365/


    Just to clarify, a Y-chromosome ancestor represents only one ancestral line out of many thousands.

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    https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-V88/

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    According to Maciamo on Eupedia, V88 probably sprung from Northern Mesopotamia among the first people to domesticate cattle. People bearing this haplogroup then headed south and then west to Egypt, then spread in a pastoral economy from there, west across North Africa and south along the Nile until they found greener pastures.

    R1b-tree.gif





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    Quote Originally Posted by Khuur View Post
    What is the origin of R1b found in West Central Africa among Cameroonian and Chadic populations?

    I found it very interesting that R1b also exist in high frequencies in Sub-Saharan Africa among these ethnic groups!

    Are all R1b of Eurasian origin including the Cameroonian and Chadic ones?

    Does this mean that many Cameroonian and Chadic populations have origins from Eurasia? If I am wrong, please correct me.

    Thank you very much!:
    this paper would be of interest to you

    https://www.academia.edu/3642572/Unr...Neolithisation

    it states R1b-V88 entered africa via Egypt and moved south along the nile and eventually crossing over to west africa

    NRY haplogroups R1b1c-V88 and T yield relevant information. R1b1c-V88 is interpreted byCruciani
    et al (2002; 2010) as trans-Saharan pastoralists wandering toward the Chad Basin and the region of present-day Cameroon with a coalescence age between 9.2 and 5.6 kya.


    My Path = ( K-M9+, LT-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-CTS6397 yDna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtDna
    Son's mtDna = K1a4p

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  10. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceT View Post
    They are R-V88, having migrated from central Eurasia around 10,000 years ago (by current estimates),
    This is estimate for mutation - probably to high.

    Dating migration at that time is pure science fiction, especially, that
    the oldest known examples have half of that age and are from Spain.

    Through Internet is cycling a map with 15.000 years.
    It is not worthy a broken penny as well of course.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Rethel View Post
    This is estimate for mutation - probably to high.

    Dating migration at that time is pure science fiction, especially, that
    the oldest known examples have half of that age and are from Spain.

    Through Internet is cycling a map with 15.000 years.
    It is not worthy a broken penny as well of course.
    Is it?

    The spread and distribution of R-V88 across northern Africa fits in with the idea of a "Green Sahara", which was actually a thing during the 7th millennium BCE up to about the 4th or 3rd millennium BCE. (Neolithic Subpluvial). Subsequent desertification pushed those peoples both south and north.

    The Iberian Els Trocs sample [I0410/Troc 3 from Haak et al (2015) and Mathieson et al (2015)], was dated to 5178-5066 BCE, was also found to be PF6376+, which is one of the R1b-V88 equivalent SNPs. So we're looking at 7,200 years ago at least, and probably more.

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  13. #8
    maybe wait until the bronze age study comes out before you start believing in all those other theories.... I mean they don't have 3500 years ago (bronze age collapse ) figured out yet in anyway .. yet many throw around older dates that they don't have a right to theorize about .

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    Quote Originally Posted by VinceT View Post
    The Iberian Els Trocs sample [I0410/Troc 3 from Haak et al (2015) and Mathieson et al (2015)], was dated to 5178-5066 BCE, was also found to be PF6376+, which is one of the R1b-V88 equivalent SNPs. So we're looking at 7,200 years ago at least, and probably more.
    1. The Iberian Els Trocs sample belongs to R-V88>Y7777 (xV35 xY8447) branch:

    Quote Originally Posted by smal View Post
    I0410, Els Trocs, Iberia_EN, 5295-5066 calBCE

    V88 eq:
    FGC20972/Y8457+
    FGC21012/V2219+
    PF6291+
    PF6292+
    PF6309+
    PF6335+
    PF6341+
    PF6343+
    PF6344+
    PF6376+
    BY426/Z5044+
    Y:9513046 (C/T)+


    V88 > FGC21034/SK2063/V2197, Y7777 eq:
    FGC20984/YFC086522+
    FGC21018/Y8460+
    FGC21029/Y8453+
    FGC21063/Y7784+
    Y:6614515 (T/A)+
    Z29595+


    V88 > FGC21034/SK2063/V2197, Y7777 >V35 eq:
    SK2068-
    V35-
    Z30236-
    Z30246-
    Z30252-
    Z30256-
    Z30264-
    Z30275-
    Y:22512713 (A/T)-
    Y:22270223 (G/A)-
    Y:22271110 (C/T)-


    V88 > FGC21034/SK2063/V2197, Y7777 > Y8447 eq:
    FGC20970/Y8447-

    V88 > FGC21034/SK2063/V2197, Y7777 > Y8447 > Y7771 eq:
    FGC20558-
    SK2071/V1944-
    Y:22263077 (A/G)-
    Y8437-
    Y8438-
    Y8439-
    Y8440-


    V88 > FGC21034/SK2063/V2197, Y7777 > Y8447> FGC20969 eq:
    FGC20969-
    FGC20981-
    FGC20983-


    I0122, Khvalynsk II, Volga River, Samara [5200-4000 BCE]
    2. YFull underestimate an age of the split between R-M18, R-Y7777, and R-V88* (Saxton's line) because they have in their tree only 1 R-M18 sample with many gaps in a sequence.

    3. We do not have an information about a distribution of the R-V88 subclades. However, from STR data we can assume that a majority of samples from Arabian peninsula or Africa belong to several recent subclades of R-Y8447.

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  16. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by VinceT View Post
    Is it?

    The spread and distribution of R-V88 across northern Africa fits in with the idea of a "Green Sahara", which was actually a thing during the 7th millennium BCE up to about the 4th or 3rd millennium BCE. (Neolithic Subpluvial). Subsequent desertification pushed those peoples both south and north.

    The Iberian Els Trocs sample [I0410/Troc 3 from Haak et al (2015) and Mathieson et al (2015)], was dated to 5178-5066 BCE, was also found to be PF6376+, which is one of the R1b-V88 equivalent SNPs. So we're looking at 7,200 years ago at least, and probably more.
    There is no proof for that. Only fantastical assumption.
    Some dating of african V88 give even possibility, that
    this subclade went into Africa 1000-1500 years ago,
    as well as 4000-5000 - this is some reasonable dates.

    10 or 15 thousand it is total fiction.

    There is no so much as it could seems from the map of R1b.
    And it must be remeberd that lets say 4000 ya subsaharian
    Africa had very small population, in which R1b was no more
    than 2-3%... very small tribe could do that, and there was
    no need for dozens of thousands years. Especially, that yet
    couple of thousands of yeas V88 was in Spain, and still is
    scattered across the Europe.

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