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Thread: Position of Nuristani Dardic

  1. #1

    Position of Nuristani Dardic

    I have always been confused on the position of Nuristani/Dardic.

    Did Indo-Iranian split into these four groups?
    Or did it split into Iranian-Nuristani and Indo-Dardic and then split again?

  2. #2
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    Nuristani is a separate group from Iranian and Indo-Aryan, however it shows some linguistic features that bring it closer to Indo-Aryan. One view held by linguists is that it was a "remnant" split from the Proto-Indo-Iranian homeland in Central Asia.

  3. #3
    so the two most likely options are imo

    Proto Indo-Iranian splits into Indo-Dardic-Nuristani and Iranian. Followed by a further split to Indo-Aryan and Dardic-Nuristani. Last split is obviously break up of Dardic Nuristani. Other option is Proto Indo-Iranian splits into Indo-Dardic, Nuristani and Iranian. Last split being break up of Indo-Aryan and Dardic. What do you think? I favor the first because it accounts for the Dardic-Nuristani unity that I believe existed in the SWAT culture.

  4. #4
    Quote Originally Posted by Scyth View Post
    Nuristani is not closer to Indic. Nuristani is closer to Iranian. Even Dardic used to be classified with Iranian but has more recently been grouped together with Indic.
    No both are closer to Indic on the whole. Both are quite distant especially from Iranian, especially West Iranian languages.
    Last edited by DMXX; 07-09-2013 at 01:47 AM. Reason: Inflammatory rhetoric removed.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scyth View Post
    Well, you're wrong. Some linguists put Nuristani and Dardic closer to Indic, others place them closer to Iranian. You can see here. Page# 40 and 41.
    I never understood why Nuristani and Dardic are in one group. To me Nuristani languages are like East-Iranian, and Dardic languages are like Indo-Aryan languages. The tree presented on page 43 makes sense IMO:
    1. Proto Indo-Iranian splits into Iranian and Indo-Dardic-Nuristani.
    2. Followed by a further split to Nuristani and Dardic-Indo-Aryan.
    3. Final split to Dardic and Indo-Aryan.

  6. #6
    Quote Originally Posted by Palisto View Post
    I never understood why Nuristani and Dardic are in one group. To me Nuristani languages are like East-Iranian, and Dardic languages are like Indo-Aryan languages. The tree presented on page 43 makes sense IMO:
    1. Proto Indo-Iranian splits into Iranian and Indo-Dardic-Nuristani.
    2. Followed by a further split to Nuristani and Dardic-Indo-Aryan.
    3. Final split to Dardic and Indo-Aryan.
    Doesn't that essentially just support Nuristani and Dardic are both closer to Indo-Aryan? Both split off from Iranian first and had unity with Indo-Aryan more recently.
    Last edited by DMXX; 07-09-2013 at 01:47 AM. Reason: Inflammatory rhetoric removed.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by newtoboard View Post
    Doesn't that essentially just support Nuristani and Dardic are both closer to Indo-Aryan?
    Yes, it does. Iranian split off first.

  8. #8
    Most people agree Iranian split off first. That makes the most sense. I am willing to consider Nuristani split off first and is equally distant from Indo-Aryan and Iranian but there was no Nuristani-Iranian unity that would make it close to Iranian than Indo-Aryan.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Scyth View Post
    Look at page 40 and 41. There is no one answer.
    The book that you presented basically says that the trees on page 40 and 41 are not good and that they made a better tree on page 43. In this newer tree the Iranian languages split off first at 2700BC; Nuristani and Indian split at 1900 BC.
    http://academia.edu/2417635/On_the_p...n_Indo-Iranian

  10. #10
    Quote Originally Posted by Scyth View Post
    Lol that is your opinion and not based on reality. You can consider whatever you want, doesn't make it true.
    Did you read your own source? Even the models on pages 40 and 41 argue my point. 2/7 models support it being closer to Iranian (one of these models adds it became close to Indo-Aryan later on on top of that), 4/7 models support it being closer to Indo-Aryan, and one supports it not particularly close to either. Their model on page 43 argues for Indo-Dardic-Nuristani. The only model which firmly supports Nuristani being closer to Iranian is from 1923. There is no evidence supporting Nuristani being closer to Iranian. Your sourced firmly agreed with me point about Indo-Dardic-Nuristani (except I thought Indo-Aryan split off first instead of Nuristani). So thank your for posting that source.

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