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Thread: Clan Menzies in Scotland : E-M81 ?

  1. #11
    I hear you and agree to the context of what your trying to argue but I think there are useful bits of info you can derive from attaching a surname to a y-haplogroup. For example, how close two samples of the same surname are related.

  2. #12
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tz85 View Post
    E-M81 existed thousands of years prior to the invention of surnames.
    Like all haplogroups but this has nothing to do with the subject as already said, this is just here that the Clan Menzies was founded by Robert de Manieres, a Norman from Mesnieres, near Rouen, Normandy and he might have been E-M81, that is why many of his descendants who bear the surname Menzies or one of his variant are E-M81 as well....
    Last edited by E_M81_I3A; 07-17-2018 at 05:49 AM.
    Global 25 Ancient Scaled: Anatolia_N 54.4, EHG 19.2, Morocco_Iberomaurusian 10, Iran_N 8.2, Yoruba 4.8, WHG 3.4
    Global 25 Scaled Closest Individuals (Moderns and Ancients): Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE:I7425 3.29%, Iberia_Southeast_c.10-16CE:I8146 3.93%, Lebanon_Medieval_Mixed:SI-41 3.97%

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  4. #13
    Rz1706 if you haven’t already, join and add your results. https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...-surname/about

  5. #14
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    What is the exact subclade of E-M81 Menzies? E-A930 or E-MZ117?

    Both of them have no close phylogenetic relationship with Morisco subclades of E-M81. Perhaps, these lines migrated in Europe before Moslem conquest of Spain.
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    Most distant known paternal ancestor: Agha Nizar Daylami, Hidden Content Hidden Content (missionary), born circa ~1420, Hidden Content

  6. #15
    E-A930

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  8. #16
    The E-A930 block on FamilyTree is lot of European furthest ancestors.

  9. #17
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    Quote Originally Posted by E_M81_I3A View Post
    At FtDna, I have two "Big Y" E-M81 matches with two people of Scottish origin named Menzies. Both of them, who are not closely related, belong to E-M81 (same subclade A-930) and have their paternal ancestors from Scotland (18th Century).

    At 23andMe, an historian of Scottish origin named Menzies as well also belongs to E-M81 (unknown subclade) and says his paternal ancestry is from Clan Menzies.

    According to historians, ancestors of Menzies came to northern France with Vikings, settled in a french village called Mesnieres (Normandie), then in medieval times came to England, where the name changed to Manners, with a branch going to Scotland and changing the spelling to Menyers and finally Menzies.

    http://www.menzies.org/history/history_full.htm

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clan_Menzies

    Of course these 3 people may also descend from a common Scottish ancestor that may not be linked to this Clan, but nevertherless it is quite interesting to find some E-M81 so far in Northern Europe.

    It would be great to have some Y-Dna tested from Normandy in France, especially the region of Mesnieres, to see if some E-M81, that belong to same subclade A930, are found which could support this clan Menzies origin.
    Manners (Mesnieres) are also R1b-A7066 and likely of Norman extract. There were probably E-M81 as a minority in northern France in the Middle Ages, none of whom were ultimately of Viking origin. They may also have been living in the region.
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: prob. I1 Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

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  11. #18
    Another theory is that the Menzies in this genetic family could be descended from Roman conscripts into England from the Balkans. The problem is, without sufficient evidence, it's all just probabilities. Certain probabilities are higher depending on the haplogroup. For example, if you look at the project, there's another few kits of Menzies that are R-U152. That's also indicative of Normans, or Romans. Who's to say it's not that? Also, the Normandy DNA project found quite a few proven Normans with the U106 haplogroup. There's at least one genetic branch of Menzies who is U106. Who's to say that's not Norman? And if they all were Norman, who's to say they had "Mesnieres" as a surname 900 years ago? We just don't know.

    You know in a fantasy world, we may be able to square this away by having someone convince the Duke of Rutland to get tested.
    Last edited by RandomUsernameGuy; 03-08-2019 at 09:00 PM.

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    One of the possible E-M81 migration scenarios from Northern Africa to Ireland and Britain
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  13. #20
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    Normandy and Britanny are somewhat of an E-M81 ''hotspot''. Even more intriguing than that is the concentration of E-M81 in the Channel Islands, where it is found in about 3% of the men !!!

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