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Thread: A-M13 in an Englishman?

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    A-M13 in an Englishman?

    I was noticing a match with a family tree going back 4+ generations with only English people in central England has a paternal haplotype of A-M13.

    Based on a quick bit of research, that seems a bit out of place for traditional English ancestry. Is this the case? What would be a typical immigration path for an A-M13 man to England more than two centuries ago? Or is this perhaps another instance of Roman soldier DNA?

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    YFull's haplotree for A-M13 shows a Saudi and two Sardinian research samples. Their TMRCA is 7600 years ago.

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    well england played a big role in slave trade so a-m13 might be from that

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  7. #4
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    Quote Originally Posted by loisrp View Post
    I was noticing a match with a family tree going back 4+ generations with only English people in central England has a paternal haplotype of A-M13.

    Based on a quick bit of research, that seems a bit out of place for traditional English ancestry. Is this the case? What would be a typical immigration path for an A-M13 man to England more than two centuries ago? Or is this perhaps another instance of Roman soldier DNA?
    Roman soldier is a nonsense since this haplogroup is nonexistent in Italy, but only one sample founded in Sardinia who means nothing.

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    Quote Originally Posted by loisrp View Post
    I was noticing a match with a family tree going back 4+ generations with only English people in central England has a paternal haplotype of A-M13.

    Based on a quick bit of research, that seems a bit out of place for traditional English ancestry. Is this the case? What would be a typical immigration path for an A-M13 man to England more than two centuries ago? Or is this perhaps another instance of Roman soldier DNA?
    Roman soldier? Not at all. Most likely slave trade. Geneticists have already found among some British with Y-DNAs of West African origin.

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    A-M13 is ancient, going by YFULL it has following:
    formed 45000 ybp, TMRCA 10500 ybp

    https://yfull.com/tree/A-M13/

    Ideally some sort of BigY/FGC sequencing of the Y-Chromosome might give a better idea of how divergent your A-M13 lineage is from other A-M13 men who've done testing.

    Even in an African context Haplogroup A isn't the most common of lineages:



    It's highest presence appears to be in Southern/Eastern Africa.


    If it's a case of more recent admixture into your lineage, it's possible that something would show up on an autosomnal test such as AncestryDNA of FamilyFinder from FTDNA. If you didn't show any African components on those tests I'd imagine it pushes any chance of admixture back to well before 200 years ago.
    (R1b-DF41+)
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    There is an A-M13/A-M202 group in the Scottish Boyds who are an Ayrshire family/'clan'. I don't think they have worked out why yet though. It's difficult to solve unless you have access to the paper trail research of the testers to vet it ;-)
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morges View Post
    Roman soldier is a nonsense since this haplogroup is nonexistent in Italy, but only one sample founded in Sardinia who means nothing.
    7 out of 1200 from Sardinia, in fact, but yes, I don't know of anything to suggest it is more common in Italy than the rest of Southern Europe. We are talking about something very rare so it could have arrived in any number of ways.

    It is much more common in East Africa than in West Africa, so more likely to have arrived via North Africa or Arabia than by the West African slave trade. Actually I'm not sure it's any more common in West Africa than it is in Southern Europe.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Megalophias View Post
    7 out of 1200 from Sardinia, in fact, but yes, I don't know of anything to suggest it is more common in Italy than the rest of Southern Europe. We are talking about something very rare so it could have arrived in any number of ways.

    It is much more common in East Africa than in West Africa, so more likely to have arrived via North Africa or Arabia than by the West African slave trade. Actually I'm not sure it's any more common in West Africa than it is in Southern Europe.
    Only seven in 1200 sardinian males is nothing and zero in over 2500 tested italians. So i exclude romans who surely don't used black africans. It must be an effect of recent free slavery.

    http://dienekes.blogspot.it/2007/01/...osome.html?m=1

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Black_British
    Last edited by Morges; 10-06-2016 at 06:52 AM.

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    intresting one of the the derived branches of haplogroup A-m13
    is found in sardinia and the tmrca is 5200 ky
    https://www.yfull.com/tree/A1b1/
    3200 bc there is no way it is conected to slavery or recent time
    so this could be ancient migration .....

    A-PH804- FGC38332 * FGC38308 * FGC38306+7 SNPsformed 9500 ybp, TMRCA 5200 ybp info
    id:YF07360SAU
    id:ERS255963ITA [IT-CA] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cagliari
    id:ERS255967ITA [IT-CA]

    regards
    adam

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