Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast
Results 21 to 30 of 48

Thread: New branch under R-FGC12401. FGC12384

  1. #21
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,342
    Sex
    Location
    Tierra de Ayllon
    Nationality
    Vespuccian
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>Z49>Z150>Y9080
    mtDNA (M)
    H1
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
    mtDNA (P)
    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Northern Ireland Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    FYI: SNPs FGC12384 and FGC12385 are now available at FTDNA as individual SNP tests for $39 each.
    We now have a 5th member of this branch...me (other 4 are my father, Alex Guess, and two men who are distant cousins to each other and descend from a William Adamthwaite who lived in the 1700s in Brough, Westmoreland, England).

    I ordered the FTDNA FGC12384 single SNP test back in January. Test results just came out for it.

    Now if I can just get my 111 marker test results (they had to retest them because first vial of saliva didn't work) I will join the U152 project.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 03-10-2017 at 03:09 AM.
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

  2. #22
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,342
    Sex
    Location
    Tierra de Ayllon
    Nationality
    Vespuccian
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>Z49>Z150>Y9080
    mtDNA (M)
    H1
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
    mtDNA (P)
    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Northern Ireland Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    New BigY order for this branch just placed. Currently 3 men have tested positive for this branch. 1 has taken both FGC Y Elite 2.1 and BigY (my dad), one has done FGC Y Elite 2.1 and Z49 SNP pack (Alex Guess), and the third has done Z49 SNP pack and just ordered BigY (surname Adamthwaite). Adamthwaite and Guess are more closely related to each other with a MRCA probably around 1600 AD based on 37 marker test and STR dating. BigY should better refine that date with SNP dating and ~60 more STR values.
    147513 Adamthwaite BigY results are in. He shares two SNPs with our shared 86098 Guess match, that my father doesn't have, confirming these two men are on a separate branch from my father.

    My guess is the new FGC12384, FGC12385 eta al. sub-branch containing 147513 and 86098 will be called "FGC47883 et al."

    After reviewing data from:
    1. My father's 111 marker, BigY, FGC test,
    2. 86098's FGC test, 111 marker test family finder test
    3. 147513 BigY test.
    4. Adamthwaite/Guess family finder results
    5. Genealogical data from Alex and the Adamthwaite gray line.

    I currently believe the shared paternal line ancestor of 147513 and 86098 lived 6 to 7 generation before their earliest known ancestors, William Adamthwaite (born before 1750) and Joseph Guess (b ~1790); or around 1600 AD +/- 50 years (~12 generations from present).

    Furthermore, I currently believe the shared paternal line ancestor of my father and the Adamthwaite-Guess line lived about 10 generations before this (22 generations from present), or about 1275 AD +/- 75 years.

    Once we get 147513 STR results from his yfull analysis and from a future 111 marker test, I may be able to further refine this estimate.


    How I came to these dates:

    -147513 and 86098 have a family finder match, with a shared segment of about 12cM; and autosomal matches are usually no later than 1500 AD;
    -147513 BigY results has 2 private SNPs (assume 176 years per BigY SNP mutation based on Yfull's formula, or ~350 years ybp/~1600 AD for the shared Guess/Adamthwaite MRCA
    -Based on genealogical records the latest possible date for Guess and Adamthwaite line MRCA would have been born around 1720 AD.
    -The Guess line (86098) is thought to have arrived in North Carolina from Virginia. Most immigration to Virginia Colony occurred from 1642 to 1675.
    -Based on above, assume the Guess line came to America around 1660 AD give or take, while the Adamthwaite line remained in England. By this point the men of these two lines might have been brothers, 1st cousins, 2nd cousins, or maybe 3rd cousins, but it would be another 3 or 4 generations until with get to their respective earliest known paternal line ancestors mentioned above

    MRCA for Guess-Adamthwaite line living 1600 AD +/- 50 years seemed reasonable based on the above


    -My father and 86098's FGC full genome tests are giving the oldest dates on Yfull for our shared MRCA (1247 and 953 ybp). As the vast majority of tests in the Yfull database are BigY results, Yfull's dating method may work better for BigY results.
    -My father's and Adamthwaite's BigY results both have 4 private SNPs since the split between my paternal line and the Adamthwaite/Guess line, and according to yfull it comes out to = between 704 and 733 ybp / 1217 and 1246 AD. (I calculated 147513's date on my own using Yfull's formula, but we will have to wait for the official Yfull date).
    -The STR method using over 300 STRs shared between Guess and my father (post 19 above) said there was just over a 97% probability TMRCA was within the last 660 ybp (1290 AD) and over 90% chance it was within the last 600 years (1350 AD),

    I just split the difference between the Yfull SNP method and the STR method, and said 1275 AD, +/- 75 years to cover the possibility of either.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 03-17-2017 at 04:27 AM.
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MitchellSince1893 For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (04-09-2017),  palamede (03-29-2017)

  4. #23
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,342
    Sex
    Location
    Tierra de Ayllon
    Nationality
    Vespuccian
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>Z49>Z150>Y9080
    mtDNA (M)
    H1
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
    mtDNA (P)
    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Northern Ireland Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    ...Now if I can just get my 111 marker test results (they had to retest them because first vial of saliva didn't work) I will join the U152 project.
    111 marker test came in yesterday. Zero difference between my result and my father's 111 test.
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

  5. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MitchellSince1893 For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (04-09-2017),  Pigmon (04-16-2017)

  6. #24
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,342
    Sex
    Location
    Tierra de Ayllon
    Nationality
    Vespuccian
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>Z49>Z150>Y9080
    mtDNA (M)
    H1
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
    mtDNA (P)
    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Northern Ireland Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    ... I just split the difference between the Yfull SNP method and the STR method, and said 1275 AD, +/- 75 years to cover the possibility of either.

    Using McDonald's 94 STR dating technique discussed here http://www.jb.man.ac.uk/~mcdonald/ge...rview-2016.pdf

    The 94 markers used give a mutation rate of =0.315+/-0.028 per generation, or once per 111+/-14 years
    Gives a date 1284 AD with a range of 1200 to 1368 AD.

    This is right in line with the what I previously got using the STR and SNP dating methods mentioned above (1275 AD with a range of 1200 to 1350 AD) increasing my confidence that this date is close to mark.

    Just ordered a 111 marker test for the Adamthwaite sample, and submitted his BigY to Yfull for analysis.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 04-08-2017 at 04:50 PM.
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

  7. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MitchellSince1893 For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (04-09-2017),  Pigmon (04-16-2017)

  8. #25
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    1,826
    Sex
    Location
    Florida, USA.
    Ethnicity
    English, Scottish & Irish
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    I-A13252
    mtDNA (M)
    H1e2
    mtDNA (P)
    K1

    England Scotland Ireland Prussia Italy Two Sicilies United States of America
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    A more comprehensive STR marker derived TMRCA estimate for the two tested samples in this branch is a few hundred years more recent than TMRCA via SNP dating method from Yfull.

    I just completed some additional research looking at all the STR results for Guess (86068, YF06431), and Mitchell (249822, YF01489, YF06577) from their two 111 marker tests, one BigY test (Mitchell) and two FGC Y Elite tests.

    On YFull's STR matching data tool there was 263 STRs compared between Mitchell's FGC test and Guess' FGC test of which 23 were different. Mitchell's BigY test and Guess' FGC test had 259 STRs compared, of which 23 were different (not the exact same 23 markers).

    I cut and pasted this YFull data into a spreadsheet, and used the FTDNA 111 marker test results to fill in many blanks in the BigY and FGC test data.

    This resulted in ~80 additional STRs (339 markers total) to compare between the two samples, with 29 being different.

    I entered this data into the McDonald's TMRCA tool at http://clandonaldusa.org/index.php/tmrca-calculator
    And got the following results using 0.0026 mutation rate.

    Generations Probability for TMRCA
    15 41.2%
    16 54.7%
    17 67.2%
    18 77.7%
    19 85.7%
    20 91.3%
    21 95.0%
    22 97.3%

    Using 30 years per generation there's a ~50% probability TMRCA lived no later than 1500 AD, and ~97% chance he lived no later than 1300 AD.

    As stated earlier, this is more recent than the SNP dating method for TMRCA used by Yfull which is currently ~1000 AD (95% CI 450 AD to 1350 AD).

    There is a small overlap between the STR and SNP dating methods (1300 to 1350 AD), so my best guess at the moment is TMRCA for this branch is 1325 AD.

    The addition of the new BigY test sample (see post above this one) and his future 111 marker test will further refine this estimate.
    Hello Mitchell,

    I was wondering if I might ask you for your opinion concerning a question I've run into. A while back I got my BigY results and they showed that I had split the I-L234 branch and formed a new sub-branch right below it called I-Y7198 by FTDNA & Y3647 by Yfull. My I1-Z140 administrator who knows that I am an exact match with another Y7198 tester dates the branch to approximately 500 AD. YFull - who only has my sample - dates it to approximately 140 AD.

    Since then a third exact match has come in, so we're forming a branch of three now. While talking to the most recent match I noticed that he is a 5 step match with me at 67 markers, while the first exact match is an 8 step match with the both of us.

    So if I've done it correctly (?) my TMRCA with the 5 step match is approximately 1237 AD
    And our TMRCA with the third fellow is approximately 967 AD

    Now my question is this: how would that information alter - if at all - the TMRCA of our I-Y7198 branch estimates of either 500 AD or 140 AD.

    Would that stay the same or would it move the branch TMRCA forward in time? And if the latter, how would I calculate that?

    Thank you for your input.

    PS I've been meaning to say this for a few weeks now, so I'll take the opportunity to say it now; I love then new design of you Mitchell shield. It's very nicely done!

  9. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to JMcB For This Useful Post:

     MitchellSince1893 (04-16-2017),  Pigmon (04-16-2017)

  10. #26
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,342
    Sex
    Location
    Tierra de Ayllon
    Nationality
    Vespuccian
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>Z49>Z150>Y9080
    mtDNA (M)
    H1
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
    mtDNA (P)
    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Northern Ireland Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    Hello Mitchell,

    I was wondering if I might ask you for your opinion concerning a question I've run into. A while back I got my BigY results and they showed that I had split the I-L234 branch and formed a new sub-branch right below it called I-Y7198 by FTDNA & Y3647 by Yfull. My I1-Z140 administrator who knows that I am an exact match with another Y7198 tester dates the branch to approximately 500 AD. YFull - who only has my sample - dates it to approximately 140 AD.

    Since then a third exact match has come in, so we're forming a branch of three now. While talking to the most recent match I noticed that he is a 5 step match with me at 67 markers, while the first exact match is an 8 step match with the both of us.

    So if I've done it correctly (?) my TMRCA with the 5 step match is approximately 1237 AD
    And our TMRCA with the third fellow is approximately 967 AD

    Now my question is this: how would that information alter - if at all - the TMRCA of our I-Y7198 branch estimates of either 500 AD or 140 AD.

    Would that stay the same or would it move the branch TMRCA forward in time? And if the latter, how would I calculate that?

    Thank you for your input.

    PS I've been meaning to say this for a few weeks now, so I'll take the opportunity to say it now; I love then new design of you Mitchell shield. It's very nicely done!
    Right now we don't have enough information. We need to know how many of your currently novel SNPs you share with your two matches.

    On your sister branch I-L234 they give the formed age range 95%CI as 2600 to 1250 ybp or 650 BC to 700 AD. Odds are your branch formed in the same range. The question is how many SNPs do you share with your two other matches? Only BigY or FGC testing will answer that...unless you want to create a custom panel at yseq.net based on your BigY novel results and can get your matches to take this newly created test https://www.yseq.net/index.php?cPath...d0df342af6d8c8

    Let's say you have 12 combBEd region novel SNPs and future testing reveals you share 6 of them with your 8 Step match and 8 of them with your 5 step match. This would allow us to better estimate when your branches/MRCA occur.

    I guess by "shield" you are referring to my avatar? The North Carolina/South Carolina map with yellow counties? Thank you.
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 04-17-2017 at 12:14 AM.
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

  11. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to MitchellSince1893 For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (04-17-2017),  Pigmon (04-16-2017)

  12. #27
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    1,826
    Sex
    Location
    Florida, USA.
    Ethnicity
    English, Scottish & Irish
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    I-A13252
    mtDNA (M)
    H1e2
    mtDNA (P)
    K1

    England Scotland Ireland Prussia Italy Two Sicilies United States of America
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    Right now we don't have enough information. We need to know how many of your currently novel SNPs you share with your two matches.

    On your sister branch I-L234 they give the formed age range 95%CI as 2600 to 1250 ybp or 650 BC to 700 AD. Odds are your branch formed in the same range. The question is how many SNPs do you share with your these two other matches? Only BigY or FGC testing will answer that...unless you want to create a custom panel at yseq.net based on your BigY novel results and can get your matches to take this newly created test https://www.yseq.net/index.php?cPath...d0df342af6d8c8

    Let's say you have 12 combBEd region novel SNPs and future testing reveals you share 6 of them with your 8 Step match and 8 of them with your 5 step match. This would allow us to better estimate when your branches/MRCA occur.

    I guess by "shield" you are referring to my avatar? The North Carolina/South Carolina map with yellow counties? Thank you.
    Hello Mitchell,

    Yes, I did mean your avatar. If I remember correctly you were experimenting with different shields before.

    Be that as it may, both of the matches in question are also exact BigY matches, too. With the first match, who is 8 STR steps from me, I share 17 novel variants. The second match, who is 5 steps from me, I share 14 novel variants. FTDNA says I have 25 novel variants.

    This is only according to FTDNA. I'm the only one who has submitted my results to YFull. I also don't know how many of these are combBEd region matches.

  13. The Following User Says Thank You to JMcB For This Useful Post:

     Pigmon (04-16-2017)

  14. #28
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,342
    Sex
    Location
    Tierra de Ayllon
    Nationality
    Vespuccian
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>Z49>Z150>Y9080
    mtDNA (M)
    H1
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
    mtDNA (P)
    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Northern Ireland Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    ...With the first match, who is 8 STR steps from me, I share 17 novel variants. The second match, who is 5 steps from me, I share 14 novel variants. FTDNA says I have 25 novel variants.

    This is only according to FTDNA. I'm the only one who has submitted my results to YFull. I also don't know how many of these are combBEd region matches.
    On Yfull, how many combBed region SNPs are novel only to you? i.e. how many SNPs Yfull lists under the novel+ section are not shared with either of your other matches?

    Knowing this we can calculate a SNP date.

    Yes I keep playing with different ideas on the shield/avatar thing. The ancestry.com new "genetic communities" feature placed my father in the "Settlers of Coastal Carolina" groups and this renewed my interest my non paternal line ancestry. North and South Carolina is 85% of my own non paternal ancestry going back 3-6 generations
    NC-FGC12384.jpg

    carolina-maps.png
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 04-17-2017 at 01:08 AM.
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

  15. The Following User Says Thank You to MitchellSince1893 For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (04-17-2017)

  16. #29
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    1,826
    Sex
    Location
    Florida, USA.
    Ethnicity
    English, Scottish & Irish
    Nationality
    American
    Y-DNA (P)
    I-A13252
    mtDNA (M)
    H1e2
    mtDNA (P)
    K1

    England Scotland Ireland Prussia Italy Two Sicilies United States of America
    Quote Originally Posted by MitchellSince1893 View Post
    On Yfull, how many combBed region SNPs are novel only to you? i.e. how many SNPs Yfull lists under the novel+ section are not shared with either of your other matches?

    Knowing this we can calculate a SNP date.

    Yes I keep playing with different ideas on the shield/avatar thing. The ancestry.com new "genetic communities" feature placed my father in the "Settlers of Coastal Carolina" groups and this renewed my interest my non paternal line ancestry. North and South Carolina is 85% of my own non paternal ancestry going back 3-6 generations
    NC-FGC12384.jpg

    carolina-maps.png
    They have me as having 32 Novel SNPs with 17 being ambiguous or low quality. The other two haven't submitted their bam files to Yfull, so I just have their FTDNA stats. One shares 17 novel variants with me and the other one shares 14.

    Attachment 15305

    I remember the first shield and really liked that one, too.

    My 5th Great Grandfather came to South Carolina in 1772 and got one of the land grants they were giving out at the time. They lived in Abbeville County, which is just about where your crescent moon is.
    Last edited by JMcB; 04-17-2017 at 02:39 AM.

  17. #30
    Registered Users
    Posts
    3,342
    Sex
    Location
    Tierra de Ayllon
    Nationality
    Vespuccian
    Y-DNA (P)
    U152>Z49>Z150>Y9080
    mtDNA (M)
    H1
    Y-DNA (M)
    I2a2a1b2a1b1>Y4925
    mtDNA (P)
    H37

    England Scotland Wales Germany Northern Ireland Ireland
    Quote Originally Posted by JMcB View Post
    They have me as having 32 Novel SNPs with 17 being ambiguous or low quality

    Attachment 15305

    I remember the first shield and really liked that one, too.
    Just so we are clear

    Step 1.
    On Yfull, Age estimation as seen in image below, how many Novel SNPs are shown. In my image 4 are shown.
    Yfull age estimation.jpg


    Step 2. How many of these SNPs in step 1 are not shared with match 1? How many are not shared with match 2? You may have to do some research via your FTDNA project or via BigY tool

    Step 3, if known, how many novel SNPs (not shared with you or other match) does match 1 have? How many Novel SNPs does match 2 have (again SNPs not shared with anyone else?
    Last edited by MitchellSince1893; 04-17-2017 at 02:44 PM.
    Y-DNA R-Z49>Z142>Z12222>FGC12378>FGC12401>FGC12384
    Ancestry: 37% English, 26% Scot/Ulster Scot, 14% Welsh, 14% German 3% Ireland, 3% Nordic, 2% French & Dutch, 1% India

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to MitchellSince1893 For This Useful Post:

     JMcB (04-17-2017)

Page 3 of 5 FirstFirst 12345 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. New branch under M458
    By leonardo in forum R1a-Z283
    Replies: 26
    Last Post: 10-12-2018, 12:43 AM
  2. New Branch?
    By Bdeed in forum L2
    Replies: 3
    Last Post: 09-18-2016, 10:23 PM
  3. New U152+ Z56+ Sub-branch
    By R.Rocca in forum R1b-U152
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 07-03-2014, 11:56 AM
  4. New U152+ L2+ Z49+ Sub-branch
    By R.Rocca in forum L2
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-04-2014, 07:31 PM
  5. 2 WTY snps on Z73+ branch of I1
    By scottraveler in forum I1-M253
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 09-25-2012, 03:08 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •