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Thread: Wrong admixture percentages and missing admixtures in my ancestry composition PED Q

  1. #1
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    Wrong admixture percentages and missing admixtures in my ancestry composition PED Q

    1.) I know that my GGG grandfather on my mothers side was Iranian (Khatib Basheikh) from Shiraz shouldn't that contribute to 3.1% Middle Eastern Ancestry? which 23andme comes up with zero on all modes of my ancestry composition; why is that?

    2.) On my fathers side my GGG grandfather was an Arab (Abu Bakr) however his children got married and had children and their children got married and had children again if so what DNA do i share with my GGG Arab Grandfather?

    I only score 0.1% North African ancestry out of every mode and thats on speculative I'm confused as to why?

    My ancestry composition for any analysis...

    Attachment 9869

    Attachment 9870

    Attachment 9871
    Last edited by SWAHILLI_PRINCE16; 06-20-2016 at 12:39 AM.

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    Have you uploaded your results to Gedmatch?

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    Yes I have my kit number is M707191.

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  6. #4
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    Egypt
    # Population Percent
    1 E_Benue_Congo 36.08
    2 W_Benue_Congo 35.4
    3 Nilo_Saharan 10.28
    4 Western_Semitic 6.66
    5 Ubangian_Congo 6.02
    6 Omotic 3.35
    7 Eastern_HG 1.23
    8 Southern_HG 0.97

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Kenyan_Bantu 6
    2 Cameroon_Fang 15.73
    3 DRC_Kongo 16.06
    4 SA_Pedi 16.79
    5 SA_Nguni 17.74
    6 Cameroon_Bamoun 18.36
    7 Chad_Kaba 21.02
    8 Kenyan_Luhya 21.24
    9 Cameroon_Mada 22.95
    10 Nigeria_Hausa 24.48
    11 DRC_Hema 24.6
    12 SA_Bantu 25.57
    13 Mali_Mandinka 26.33
    14 SA_Sotho/Tswana 26.53
    15 SA_Xhosa 28.17
    16 Alur 28.94
    17 Nigeria_Igbo 31.73
    18 Chad_Bulala 35.9
    19 Nigeria_Yoruba 36.17
    20 Nigeria_Fulani 36.69

    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 60.8% DRC_Kongo + 39.2% DRC_Hema @ 3.34
    2 57.5% Cameroon_Bamoun + 42.5% DRC_Hema @ 3.63
    3 88.5% Kenyan_Bantu + 11.5% Nigeria_Fulani @ 3.7
    4 78.4% Cameroon_Fang + 21.6% Kenyan_Maasai @ 3.9
    5 94.8% Kenyan_Bantu + 5.2% S_Moroccan @ 4.18
    6 50.1% Nigeria_Hausa + 49.9% DRC_Hema @ 4.46
    7 95.6% Kenyan_Bantu + 4.4% Mozabite @ 4.5
    8 95.7% Kenyan_Bantu + 4.3% Libyan @ 4.53
    9 95.9% Kenyan_Bantu + 4.1% Tunisian @ 4.54
    10 96.1% Kenyan_Bantu + 3.9% Egyptian @ 4.54
    11 95.9% Kenyan_Bantu + 4.1% N_Moroccan @ 4.56
    12 95.8% Kenyan_Bantu + 4.2% Algerian @ 4.65

    13 59.8% DRC_Hema + 40.2% Nigeria_Yoruba @ 4.88
    14 83.5% Kenyan_Bantu + 16.5% DRC_Kongo @ 5.2
    15 90.5% Kenyan_Bantu + 9.5% Mali_Mandinka @ 5.36
    16 56.6% DRC_Hema + 43.4% Nigeria_Igbo @ 5.37
    17 92.1% Kenyan_Bantu + 7.9% Nigeria_Igbo @ 5.37
    18 96.2% Kenyan_Bantu + 3.8% Ethiopian_Tygray @ 5.4
    19 93.6% Kenyan_Bantu + 6.4% Ghana_Brong @ 5.4
    20 51.8% DRC_Hema + 48.2% Mali_Mandinka @ 5.43

    I used this calculator because it had Kenyan oracle results. Based on these results, it looks like you might have some North African in you, approximately 4% depending on which North African you use

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    Thanks, which calculator has the Kenyan oracle with all the admixture components like Iranian, Arabian, South Asian?
    Last edited by SWAHILLI_PRINCE16; 06-20-2016 at 03:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SWAHILLI_PRINCE16 View Post
    1.) I know that my GGG grandfather on my mothers side was Iranian (Khatib Basheikh) from Shiraz shouldn't that contribute to 3.1% Middle Eastern Ancestry? which 23andme comes up with zero on all modes of my ancestry composition; why is that?

    2.) On my fathers side my GGG grandfather was an Arab (Abu Bakr) however his children got married and had children and their children got married and had children again if so what DNA do i share with my GGG Arab Grandfather?

    I only score 0.1% North African ancestry out of every mode and thats on speculative I'm confused as to why?

    My ancestry composition for any analysis...

    Attachment 9869

    Attachment 9870

    Attachment 9871
    I'm noticing a pattern here and felt the need to drop my 2 cents -- I think your Arab/Iranian ancestry, in a genealogical time-frame at least, might have been a bit over-embellished or might quite frankly be non-existent. Maybe your 6.66% Western Semitic (puntDNAL K8) is from a Cushitic affinity, that could be why you're not reading any substantial NA\ME descent on 23andMe.

    It seems to be a trend among many indigenous Sub-Saharan Africans, especially those with connections to Islam, to claim some kind of paternal lineage from the Middle-East -- no doubt that there exists real genetic remnants in ancient and more recent migrations\conquests but more often than not I hear reference to a full-all-out Arab being someone's immediate great or great-grand-parent -- it's always just far enough to be verifiable.

    Pardon if that has a condescending tone, or comes across a bit blunt or combative, I don't mean it in the least -- we got a similar story in the family -- I've heard such claims on my father's side, who again happens to come from a predominantly Muslim ethnic group. If you were to ask elderly family members, they'd swear to you that there's an Arab great-grand mother that wondered through Sudan -- yet, no associated genetic trace exists among my siblings. Perhaps non-stereotypical physical traits were the culprit for the false description - an abnormally lighter complexion or uncommon facial features maybe. I don't know how it is in Kenya but if you were to go by what a Southern-Sudanese or Northern-Ugandan calls an Arab, many would be considered indistinguishably "black" -- in North-America at least.

    Then again, with the history along the coast there's more merit and historical backing for your recent genetic ties to Persia and Arabia but from what I gather, many indigenous African's claims to non-African families are just a way of holding some kind of false prestige -- I say false in a "modern new-age" context but I'm sure, along the Swahili Coast at least, being of Persian\Arab descent still "carries a lot of weight", even after the Zanzibar Revolution which I recently found was ironically led by a Ugandan.

    I recall seeing a few troubling scenes in a Louis Gates documentary sometime back, maybe you've seen it or even posted it on that Cultural Swahili thread -- it had different persons interviewed along the Nile and the Swahili coast. I was shocked to hear so many interviewed claiming their entire ancestry came from Persia and Arabia; the testimony of an elderly Sudanese gentleman, an Imam perhaps, and another scene with younger Swahili lads were the most shocking and disturbing that I can recall. I'd wager these genealogical misassociations are due to centuries of foreign cultural and religious hegemony, the conquered population feels a sense of inferiority after having no positive references from their own history and often subconsciously tries to associate themselves with the ethnic group of the ruling-class -- sounds like a lesser degree of Stockholm syndrome if you ask me *that was an attempt at humor*

    You see the same theme played out among many Latin-Americans, the name itself couldn't be more of a misnomer, some of predominantly Indigenous ancestry only associating\claiming\mentioning that distant Spanish line. I remember a Goan friend from high school, you'd ask him where he's from and he'd immediately start rambling about his half Portuguese great-grandmother - it got old pretty quick.

    Then again, I guess we're all guilty to an extent of trying of trying to exoticize ourselves -- now the ever so frequent fairy-tale of Native-American ancestry among Americans of predominate colonial ancestry would clearly fit in this category and not the aforementioned.
    Last edited by Angoliga; 06-21-2016 at 08:03 AM.

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  11. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by NiloSaharan View Post
    You see the same theme played out among many Latin-Americans, the name itself couldn't be more of a misnomer, some of predominantly Indigenous ancestry only associating\claiming\mentioning that distant Spanish line. I remember a Goan friend from high school, you'd ask him where he's from and he'd immediately start rambling about his half Portuguese great-grandmother - it got old pretty quick.

    Then again, I guess we're all guilty to an extent of trying of trying to exoticize ourselves -- now the ever so frequent fairy-tale of Native-American ancestry among Americans of predominate colonial ancestry would clearly fit in this category and not the aforementioned.
    Good points. A lot of this comes down to the personality and perceptions of the test-taker (or in the case of the documentary the storyteller), family myths, and their understanding of history.

    I have several apparently Sephardic segments with Ibero-Americans, and some are quite open about the possibility of shared Near Eastern or Spanish ancestry, while others think I must have had a Mayan ancestor who back-migrated to Eurasia.

    My late paternal grandfather had a very small 0.1% SSA segment. I don't think this is atypical for Ashkenazim: indeed if you look at the <1% of Ashkenazim who have yDNA E1a1 and E2 it would be very easy to explain from ancient gene flow from East Africa. Examining his segment on Gedmatch oracles this segment seems mainly to point to an Omotic origin. Perhaps this points to a small contribution of the DNA of Axumite Jews who left Africa on the kingdom's adoption of Christianity, magnified through endogamy and drift; or with something like the conversion to Judaism of an East African person in ancient Rome. Anyway, I suspect it could be over 1,500 years old.

    In any case, if my grandfather had happened to have got yDNA E1a1 or E2, as a number of my Ashkenazi distant genetic cousins did, it would not change the autosomal makeup. The lineage would be one that would not even show up autosomally, with all likelihood. Even if he were E1a1 or E2 it would be the literal definition of insanity for me to say that my grandfather was "mostly African." Family stories sometimes have grains of truth but we can only work with the numbers and tools we have in front of us. (Though I can't deny even this 0.1% made me more interested in reading about ancient East African history.)
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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  13. #8
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    Hey there both my grandmother's are Kikuyus which I bet you already know by now but here's something interesting I picked up

    According to a Y-Chromosome DNA study by Wood et al. (2005), around 73% of Gĩkũyũs and their Bantu kinsmen the Kamba belong to the common Sub-Saharan paternal haplogroup E1b1a. The remainder carry other clades: 19% E1b1b, 2% A, and 2% B.[35]

    In terms of maternal lineages, Gĩkũyũs closely cluster with other Eastern Bantu groups like the Sukuma. Most belong to various Sub-Saharan mtDNA L haplogroups such as L0f, L3x, L4g and L5 per Castrž et al. (2009).[36] According to Salas et al. (2002), other Gĩkũyũs largely carry the L1a clade, which is a signature of the Bantu expansion from West Africa.[37]

    So in conclusion, most Kikuyus and other South Eastern Bantus have this paternal Y haplogroup which has its origins in East Africa but this haplogroup is not common amongst Cushities from what I've researched a huge amount of Somalians and Horners carry the E1b1b1a haplogroup. The Masai Y haplogroups are primarily the E1b1b and E1b1a aswell as the A haplogroup. Some Cushities carry the J Y DNA the Middle Eastern and South Asian Y haplogroup but even I'd that was in my family it would be ancient when 23andme only goes back 500 years.


    I wouldn't really call it a trend since most Swahilis ive interacted with consider themselves Black or African but not all are purely african just the way not all Africans are from one place but since they live in Africa and speak Bantu they are African.

    Rightly said about the fact that Arabs and Persians shouldn't be only credited as the Swahili (Africans) did expand the islam legacy across East Africa. It was the baganda king who brought peace with the Swahili traders and merchants? Again many Swahili influences and Islam were brought.

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    Even if your family story and genealogy are correct, I still say these results don't prove or disprove anything. Having this knowledge causes you to pay more and think you are getting more from genetic tests, when in reality it is misleading.

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