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Thread: R1b1b2a1a2f*, M222, and 23andme: is it possible to know?

  1. #1
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    Question R1b1b2a1a2f*, M222, and 23andme: is it possible to know?

    Hello fellow R1b-L21'ers:

    Like many DNA nerd noobs I have just got my profile on one of those slick testing sites - for me that was 23andme.

    Low and behold I get the family ancestry shattering bombshell that I am of the R1b1b2a1a2f* line. It is also suggested as we all know that the M222 subgroup is within that.

    Is there a way to search the raw 23andme data to check for M222: I can find the rs20321 in my data and it shows: rs20321 Y 14902414 G

    I know this is not the A mutation, but does 23andme have the resolution to show more than the ancestral G and also show the mutations/subclass for rs20321?

    This is probably a dumb and well asked question - I have researched this for many days now before posting what might be the number 1 dumb question in the R1b-L21 area..

    thanks!

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     [email protected] (07-15-2016)

  3. #2
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    Ok here is another question: How can I get better analysis results of my 23andme data to determine which subclade I belong to under R1b1b2a1a2f*?

    Is there an online site to examine this data or log into 23andme and get the data it needs?

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  5. #3
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    Is this a very active section? Its eerily silent...

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  7. #4
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    23andme doesn't cover the Y very deeply and their Y haplogroup assignments are pretty ancient, based on 2009 ISOGG. Most snp's downstream of L21 are not tested but a handful are and if not part of the 2009 ISOGG, won't be caught by 23andme. You can try running this tool:
    http://www.y-str.org/2014/04/23andme-to-ysnps.html

    I've got 4 guys tested at 23andme, all 4 are listed as R1b1b2a1a2f or R1b1b2a1a2f*. Btw, ignore the asterisk as it's meaningless now. My guys with no asterisk were tested on a much earlier platform when not much past L21 was known. 2 of the R1b1b2a1a2f* are in the Irish III group, L226/FGC5628+ but you cannot determine that with 23andme raw data. You have to test at FTDNA to know that. The other 2 guys are CTS1751+ which CAN be determined with v2/v4 23andme raw data:

    rs11799049 G (derived) CTS1751 Royal line of Dyfed? See this thread:
    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...-of-L144/page2

    M222 is downstream of L21 and 23andme would list you as R1b1b2a1a2f2 if you were positive for it. R1b1b2a1a2f* is negative for M222 though don't despair, there are plenty of historically significant lineages you could still be positive for if you test at FTDNA:
    https://www.familytreedna.com/groups...out/background

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  9. #5
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    Tool cool! Thanks for the info on this - the inclusion in R1b1b2a1a2f is quite a surprise for my family as we are Rogers. I am interested to see where this line geographically originated.

    I am proud to join the R1b1b2a1a2f ranks :-)

  10. #6
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    Is there a list of subclasses that ARE testable by 23andme data?

  11. #7
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    You can search 23andme threads, I know there was a thread I participated on that listed tested snp's. Or you can check this for listed snp's, those under L21, and plug them in one-by-one into your 23andme raw data and see if you are positive:
    https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1934392066

    Your best bet, given your interest, is testing at FTDNA. A 37 or 67 marker test plus an L21 snp panel would answer a lot of your questions and provide you with Y matches, which 23andme cannot do. I've seen Rogers listed in L21, so it's not a stretch by any means.

  12. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by mrrstrat View Post
    Hello fellow R1b-L21'ers:

    Like many DNA nerd noobs I have just got my profile on one of those slick testing sites - for me that was 23andme.

    Low and behold I get the family ancestry shattering bombshell that I am of the R1b1b2a1a2f* line. It is also suggested as we all know that the M222 subgroup is within that.

    Is there a way to search the raw 23andme data to check for M222: I can find the rs20321 in my data and it shows: rs20321 Y 14902414 G

    I know this is not the A mutation, but does 23andme have the resolution to show more than the ancestral G and also show the mutations/subclass for rs20321?

    This is probably a dumb and well asked question - I have researched this for many days now before posting what might be the number 1 dumb question in the R1b-L21 area..

    thanks!
    23andMe tests for M222. If you were M222 you would be listed as R1b1b2a1a2f2 so you are L21 and not M222. My brother was tested at 23andMe and came back as M222 (R1b1b2a1a2f2).

  13. #9
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    I put my converted 23andme data into a converter and then put this into the Robert Case SNP Predictor:


    [Possible R-L21 Y-SNP Testing Candidates]

    SNP PROB FPM FPM FPP DIST
    ------------------------------------------------
    L643 90% 7 8 87.5% 67
    DF41_N 80% 6 8 75% 67
    L577 80% 7 8 87.5% 67
    L130 40% 9 13 69.2% 67
    L526 40% 11 16 68.8% 67
    L720 40% 7 11 63.6% 67
    L894 & L895 40% 9 12 75% 67
    M222 40% 6 11 54.5% 67
    DF41_S 30% 6 9 66.7% 67
    L144 & L195 (W) 30% 5 8 62.5% 67
    L1065 30% 5 8 62.5% 67
    L1335_M 30% 5 8 62.5% 67
    L226 20% 6 9 66.7% 67
    L69.5 15% 8 12 66.7% 67
    L159.2 10% 3 6 50% 67
    L193 10% 3 6 50% 67
    L583 10% 7 11 63.6% 67
    L627 & L626 & L625 10% 7 12 58.3% 67
    L641 & L642 10% 7 12 58.3% 67
    L679 10% 8 14 57.1% 67
    L706.2 & L705.2 10% 4 7 57.1% 67
    L159.2-D 5% 7 13 53.8% 67
    L371 5% 6 11 54.5% 67
    L743 5% 6 9 66.7% 67
    L744 & L745 & L746 5% 5 9 55.6% 67
    L908 & L909 5% 8 15 53.3% 67
    S190 5% 5 9 55.6% 67
    DF41_M 0% 4 9 44.4% 67
    DF41_D 0% 4 10 40% 67
    Last edited by mrrstrat; 07-15-2016 at 03:11 AM.

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  15. #10
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    Do these results show anything significant?

    (not sure how significant, but I did minor in BioChem/BioSci in my undergrad studies)..

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