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Thread: So you need help and you have an R1b haplotype?

  1. #1
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    So you need help and you have an R1b haplotype?

    I just opened this up for anyone who is R1b1 or R1b1a2 predicted or has some kind of R1b SNP positive result but aren't sure where they fit or what subclade they are in.

    Ask away, but please be sure to join the right R1b haplogroup projects according to your SNP tests. If you have no Y SNP results the right project is the R1b and Subclades "Gateway" project at
    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/r1b/default.aspx

  2. #2
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    Quote Originally Posted by ilmari View Post
    rms2,
    Sorry to get specific here, but if possible, could you look at both of these and let me know if you believe either would be interesting for further SNP testing, please?
    130937
    140532
    I apologize again because after a death in the family, I've really just not paid much attention to them.
    Thank you.
    p.s. Please feel free to delete or move this if I've placed it in the improper thread.
    I have your two haplotypes in the R1b-L21_Haplotypes file and they are L21+. I try to assign people to speculative STR signature based varieties (deep ancestral clusters) to help with SNP testing guidance. It is important to find your terminal (youngest) SNP to make sure you know what branch of the Y DNA family tree you are on.

    As far as 130937, I have you assigned to variety 1528. Here are your closest GDs (Genetic Distance) at 67 STRs in the L21 file. f153101 Mattsson(Koskinen) is only a GD=2 so he is very important. The others are GD=9.

    f130937 Brandstrom(Teuva) R1b-P312>L21 L21+ 3c1g 1528
    f153101 Mattsson(Koskinen) R1b-P312>L21>DF13 DF13+ DF41- L96- L144- 1528
    f112777 Carroll zzL21suspect 21-2225-EC
    f115408 Dooley R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF21 DF21+ 21-2225-EC
    f208276 MacKall R1b-P312>L21 L21+ L144- zzL21unassigned
    f172278 Pry R1b-P312>L21 L21+ L144- 253-1716-P
    f107898 Purcell zzL21suspect 21-2225-EC
    f23350 Springer R1b-P312>L21>DF13>DF21 DF21+ 21-2225-EC


    Odds are excellent f130937 Brandstrom(Teuva) is DF13+ so that would the logical next step on the Advanced Orders menu at FTDNA. You might be either DF21+ or Z253+ too which makes you DF13+ by default. The safest (but not cheapest) action is to test do a Geno 2.0 test and transfer the results over to your FTDNA account. That test pretty much covers the waterfront.

    As far as 140532 The below are all GDs up to 7 at 67 markers for you. I've got you assigned to variety 4466-T2-C. Some people call that Irish II/South.

    f140532 Roddy R1b-P312>L21 L21+ 3c1g 4466-T2-C
    f49438 Robertson zzL21suspect 4466-T2-C
    f11112 McCarter zzL21suspect 4466-T2-C
    f74069 Thompson zzL21suspect 4466-T2-C
    f79806 Heffernan zzL21suspect 4466-T2-C
    f254744 Laverty R1b-P312>L21 L21+ 4466-T2-C
    f106549 Stalker zzL21suspect 4466-T2-C
    f112957 Thompson zzL21suspect 4466-T2-C
    f118168 Thompson zzL21suspect 4466-T2-C
    f18569 White R1b-P312>L21 L21+ 4466-T2-C
    f29165 Canady zzL21suspect 4466-T2-C
    f184724 Dunphy zzL21suspect 4466-T2
    f88489 Heffernan R1b-P312>L21>DF13>CTS4466+ CTS4466+ CTS5714+ 4466-T2-C
    f116039 Robertson zzL21suspect 4466-T2-C
    f127014 Thompson zzL21suspect 4466-T2-C
    f207493 Weir zzL21suspect 4466-T2-C
    f121498 zzzUnk(adopted) zzL21suspect 4466-T2-C


    I think there is a very good chance f140532 Roddy is CTS4466+ so that is highly recommended. There are several SNPs that are found in 4466-T2 type people so far. They are CTS4466, CTS5714, CTS3974, CTS8358. We don't know how these markers subdivided (or not) this group so all are good testing candidates, in my opinion.

  3. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to TigerMW For This Useful Post:

     DMXX (04-16-2013),  MikeWhalen (07-05-2013)

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    Hello,
    I had a 37-Marker yDNA test done last year at FTDNA and the I was predicted R1b1a2 R-M269. In almost a year, I've only had a couple of 25 for 25 exact matches, a couple of 2 - step 37 matches and quite a few 3 -step. I've been waiting to do further testing in the hopes that I would get some better 37-marker matches. I only have my most distant known ancestor born in 1834, in England, probably London. Do you still recommend upgrading to 67 marker YSTRs, or in my case would the Geno 2.0 be better. It seems that FTDNA is recommending Geno 2.0 as the next step. Thanks!

  6. #5
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    Quote Originally Posted by ths View Post
    Hello,
    I had a 37-Marker yDNA test done last year at FTDNA and the I was predicted R1b1a2 R-M269. In almost a year, I've only had a couple of 25 for 25 exact matches, a couple of 2 - step 37 matches and quite a few 3 -step. I've been waiting to do further testing in the hopes that I would get some better 37-marker matches. I only have my most distant known ancestor born in 1834, in England, probably London. Do you still recommend upgrading to 67 marker YSTRs, or in my case would the Geno 2.0 be better. It seems that FTDNA is recommending Geno 2.0 as the next step. Thanks!
    As long as you recognize its limitations, you cannot really go wrong with the Geno 2.0 test. While some important SNPs (such as P-312 and L48) failed on the chip, it does test an impressive number of Y-SNPs. In addition, you get a decent haplogroup assignment for your mtDNA (although it only tests selective SNPs on the mtDNA, so the results are not really comparable to other mtDNA tests). You also get a fair autosomal DNA test (althought other tests such as 23andMe and FTDNA's Family Finder do a better job with this aspect).

  7. #6
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    Helping a Kelly who has a basic M269 R1b1a2 SNP confirmed, we went for L21 but it was L21-

    The 67 STR scores are: (184041) 14 25 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 17 18 11 11 19 23 15 15 18 17 32 35 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 15 10 12 12 15 8 11 23 21 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12

    Has some one a haplo-predictor handy, it looks like a U106 or a P312 but perhaps there is a better handle and a predictor can guide me to a deeper SNP test?

    regards

    Aidan

  8. #7
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    The low CDY=32-35 (as well as the high 390=25) would make it VERY unusual for it to fall under U106 (which is my expertise).

  9. #8
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    The 492=12 also makes it very unlikely to be U106+. Since this haplotype is L21-, and probably U106-, it is likely to be some other type of P312+. In Ireland, after L21, the next most frequent P312+ haplogroup is probably DF27. He could try testing for DF27. Of course, I have not tried to run this haplotype in any way.

    It might be best to test for P312 first, however, then go from there.

    Does he have a Ysearch ID that could be shared? Does he have any matches who have tested positive for any SNP's?

  10. #9
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    If you google R-L21 SNP Predictor it will take you to the website.You may be DF27+.
    Last edited by dartraighe; 07-03-2013 at 05:06 PM.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aidan Kelly View Post
    Helping a Kelly who has a basic M269 R1b1a2 SNP confirmed, we went for L21 but it was L21-

    The 67 STR scores are: (184041) 14 25 14 11 11 14 12 12 12 13 13 29 17 9 10 11 11 25 15 19 29 15 15 17 18 11 11 19 23 15 15 18 17 32 35 12 12 11 9 15 16 8 10 10 8 10 10 12 23 23 15 10 12 12 15 8 11 23 21 13 12 11 13 11 11 12 12

    Has some one a haplo-predictor handy, it looks like a U106 or a P312 but perhaps there is a better handle and a predictor can guide me to a deeper SNP test?

    regards

    Aidan
    Aidan, in the R1b Gateway project there is a 67STR compare spreadsheet that lets you copy a haplotype line from an FTDNA public project screen and then compare GD's with everyone that's SNP tested and at 67 STRs in the R1b, P312, U106, U152, L21, ht36 and R1b1* projects. Hopefully, there will be a striking pattern of off-modals combined with low GD's that will give SNP guidance.

    The default or fall-back answer is do the National Geno 2.0 test and get good coverage and at a medium price and get some mt and autosomal SNPs thrown in. Here's the R1b gateway project: http://tinyurl.com/R1b-Project

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