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Thread: R1b-L21 Phylogeny (SNP based family tree)

  1. #1
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    Lightbulb R1b-L21 Phylogeny (SNP based family tree)

    I try to keep this graphic current. It is the Y DNA tree/phylogeny for L21 as best as I know it. Please post any corrections or ommissions here.
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...dency_Tree.jpg

    FTDNA's haplotree is way, way behind so for source data for the graphic I use International Society of Genetic Genealogy's (ISOGG) Y hapgroup R tree at
    http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html

    I supplement that with the fine research David Reynold's does for us on his Walk The Y (WTY) project and Geno 2.0 (from National Geneographic Project) comparative tables such as these at
    http://daver.info/geno/results/R-L21.pdf
    http://daver.info/geno/results/R-DF21.pdf
    http://daver.info/geno/results/R-DF49.pdf
    http://daver.info/geno/results/R-L513.pdf
    http://daver.info/geno/results/R-L1335.pdf
    http://daver.info/geno/results/R-Z253.pdf

    David also assembled this comparison of data in the 1000 Human Genome project.
    http://daver.info/1000Genomes/HgR-L21.htm

    Another source of data is FTDNA's lab director Thomas Krahn and the draft tree he posts for L21.
    http://ytree.ftdna.com/index.php?nam...arent=99813537

    Of course, another source is new news from our R1b-L21 project Y DNS SNP report screen. I check it about once a week.
    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...x?section=ysnp
    Last edited by TigerMW; 04-26-2013 at 09:34 PM.

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     snake86413 (10-07-2013)

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    That is really a great graphic and extremely useful when trying to explain where things stand now, SNP-wise.

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    Z251 appears to be a solid, diverse peer with the larger subclades of DF13 so I added it as a rectangle. There are couple of unknowns about its relationship with smaller DF13 subclades.
    https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/...dency_Tree.jpg
    Last edited by TigerMW; 06-03-2013 at 12:49 PM.

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     History-of-Things (05-16-2013),  MacEochaidh (05-17-2013),  MikeWhalen (05-12-2013)

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    Regarding the positioning of L1336: I always forget exactly what the clouds mean. To my knowledge L720 (if I am to be taken as an example) is L1336- but the place it is put looks to be upstream of us--maybe reconsider how to position it? Thanks. I had to think about that one a second, since I'm always ready to help out with new testing to clarify things, but the WTY already indicates L1336-. Lacking a little excitement these days with nothing new and useful to test....
    Last edited by History-of-Things; 05-12-2013 at 05:19 AM.
    architectural historian/material culture historian
    specialty: East/West interaction 17th to 19th centuries

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    Thanks for the tree. It is very helpful in orienting to this topic.

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    Here are the latest updates. Among other things I've inserted F4036 and PF825 as independent peers under Z253 but it is unclear whether they are independent of each other, plus F4036 may be private. The grayed out SNPs are ones that have very high probabilities of remaining in private status. That is a bit of subjective.

    I've also got another URL that leads back to the same long dropbox URL. This should be easy to remember -
    http://tinyurl.com/R1b-L21-Tree



    Putting an SNP in a "cloud" just means its positioning is not completely clear, it's still a little cloudy or it means it is private. Since ISOGG will not track private SNPs their positioning will always be subject to cloudiness because there is no official cross-checking of all the relevant SNPs against it.
    Last edited by TigerMW; 06-21-2013 at 12:00 AM.

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    L21 will be updated on the ISOGG tree soon.
    Only David would apologize for all of the volunteer work he is doing. L21ers are lucky to have him.
    Quote Originally Posted by David Reynolds
    My apologies, but I am still travelling, and still behind on my e-mail and other
    responses. If you awaiting a response from me (particularly for something posted
    here), please feel free to e-mail me again and/or directly (dna (at) daver.info)
    to ensure I don't miss responding to you.

    I've sent in a number of edits to Alice, and we should see the changes made to
    the ISOGG tree within the next couple weeks at the latest. Following SNPs are
    being added under the R-L21 tree:

    R1b1a2a1a2c1f3-PF825.2
    R1b1a2a1a2c1g2a1a-L658 (moved)
    R1b1a2a1a2c1g2a1b-CTS3655
    R1b1a2a1a2c1g2a1b1-L627 (moved)
    R1b1a2a1a2c1g2a1c-L1402
    R1b1a2a1a2c1g5-L1336
    R1b1a2a1a2c1k1a-L743
    R1b1a2a1a2c1l-CTS4466

    Waiting for a CTS4466+ Z251 result before adding Z251 to the tree.
    I am sneaking ahead and adding what I think Z251 will be.

    http://tinyurl.com/R1b-L21-Tree
    Last edited by TigerMW; 07-02-2013 at 09:06 PM.

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    Z251 was added to the ISOGG tree. I also noted citizen-scientist Andy G's early reports on DF85 & DF97 (correction). Sounds significant to me, and the positioning is clear so I'm adding them to the chart.


    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Grierson
    Discovery and validation of a new branch below M222

    As some of you know we have been working with public genome data for some time. I am pleased to report the identification of a new branch below M222. We have identified two novel variants shared by samples from the 1,000 genomes project and the personal genome project, namely NA20318 and hu2E413D.

    The shared variants are defined as:
    DF85, a C>A mutation at position 23334448
    DF97, a G>A mutation at position 22631679

    Testing anonymous samples, I have determined that DF85 is above DF97 in the phylogenetic tree. i.e we have men who are DF85+ DF97- but not the other way around.

    -M222
    --DF85
    ---DF97

    Since the samples are anonymous I have no indication which M222 men may be positive for these markers. All I know for sure is that I am negative (ysearch 7QEWC)

    Primer details have been forwarded to the relevant consumer testing companies.
    http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.co...-07/1372767795

    http://tinyurl.com/R1b-L21-Tree
    Last edited by TigerMW; 08-19-2013 at 09:46 PM.

  12. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    Z251 was added to the ISOGG tree. I also noted citizen-scientist Andy G's early reports on DF83 & DF97. Sounds significant to me, and the positioning is clear so I'm adding them to the chart.
    Should be DF85 -- DF83 is one of ours.

  13. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by razyn View Post
    Should be DF85 .
    Got it. Thank you for checking.

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