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Thread: My AncestryDNA vs GEDMatch Discrepancy?

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by kenji.aryan View Post
    They are just showing possibilities and nothing more than that .

    Do you knw what Jatt clan or Brahman clan you belong too?
    Can you tell me what West Asian means in my history?

  2. #12
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    This is my results from Dodecad K12b. Is this accurate? It says there's Cochin_Jews and Bnei_Menashe_Jews. I have no recollection of Jewish in my family history, but I don't know a lot about my family history.

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 South_Asian 36.92
    2 Gedrosia 35.54
    3 North_European 11.52
    4 Caucasus 10.87
    5 Southwest_Asian 2.26
    6 Southeast_Asian 1.66


    Finished reading population data. 223 populations found.
    12 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh @ 11.334094
    2 Jatt @ 14.255522
    3 Kshatriya @ 14.581313
    4 Cochin_Jews @ 14.825944
    5 Meena @ 15.171444
    6 Brahmins_from_Tamil_Nadu @ 16.045895
    7 Pathan @ 16.346313
    8 Indian @ 16.835114
    9 Burusho @ 16.954023
    10 Bnei_Menashe_Jews @ 18.491692
    11 Sindhi @ 18.523693
    12 Iyer @ 18.997486
    13 Iyengar @ 19.265636
    14 Lambadi @ 20.155716
    15 Bengali @ 20.807968
    16 Tharus @ 22.151697
    17 GIH30 @ 22.153830
    18 Kurmi @ 22.384676
    19 Meghawal @ 22.788073
    20 INS30 @ 23.051855

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Lambadi +50% Pathan @ 4.954821


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Iyengar +25% Kshatriya +25% Lezgins @ 2.818759


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Bengali + Iyengar + Lezgins + Meena @ 2.504216
    2 MALAYAN + Pathan + Pathan + Pathan @ 2.739272
    3 Iyengar + Iyengar + Kshatriya + Lezgins @ 2.818759
    4 Iyengar + Iyer + Kshatriya + Lezgins @ 2.820150
    5 Bengali + Iyer + Lezgins + Meena @ 2.849047
    6 Kanjars + Kshatriya + Lezgins + Meena @ 2.863594
    7 Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh + Lezgins + Meena + Tamil_Nadu_Scheduled_Caste @ 2.898822
    8 Iyengar + Kanjars + Lezgins + Meena @ 2.913337
    9 Iyengar + Iyengar + Lezgins + Meena @ 2.925867
    10 Jatt + Kanjars + Lezgins + Tamil_Nadu_Scheduled_Caste @ 2.929460
    11 Nihali + Pathan + Pathan + Pathan @ 2.937585
    12 Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh + Iyengar + Iyengar + Lezgins @ 2.944416
    13 Bengali + Kshatriya + Lezgins + Meena @ 2.946869
    14 Dusadh + Iyengar + Jatt + Lezgins @ 2.949536
    15 Brahmins_from_Uttar_Pradesh + Iyengar + Iyer + Lezgins @ 2.965884
    16 Kshatriya + Lezgins + Meena + Muslim @ 2.998786
    17 Iyengar + Lezgins + Meena + Muslim @ 3.012433
    18 Dharkars + Iyengar + Lezgins + Meena @ 3.020209
    19 INS30 + Kshatriya + Lezgins + Meena @ 3.023055
    20 Dharkars + Kshatriya + Lezgins + Meena @ 3.024949

  3. #13
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    Your Harappa results are odd, they look like my family's (which are odd, because our Baloch is low... 35% is low for the Pakistan/Punjab area). We're Jatts but our results are not like the three normal clusters of Jatts (Pahari/Pakistani Jatts, Punjabi Jatt Sikhs, and Haryana Jatts). Other Jatts with results like ours tend to come from the same area around Faisalabad. Where in Punjab is your family from?

    Your Eurogenes ANE K7:

    Population
    ANE 29.04
    ASE 18.36
    WHG-UHG 4.80
    East_Eurasian 3.44
    West_African -
    East_African 2.50
    ENF 41.85

    Your Baloch ancestry is probably real but probably very distant and maybe not even Baloch because your highest relative match is 14.2 cM, South Asian, with the following results:


    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Baloch 41.73
    2 S-Indian 28.16
    3 Caucasian 17.46
    4 NE-Euro 8.31
    5 NE-Asian 1.25
    6 Siberian 0.74
    7 SW-Asian 0.71
    8 American 0.68
    9 Papuan 0.49
    10 Beringian 0.47

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 sindhi (harappa) 4.5
    2 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 5.12
    3 kashmiri (harappa) 5.75
    4 pathan (hgdp) 5.87
    5 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 6.58
    6 kalash (hgdp) 6.91
    7 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 7
    8 bhatia (harappa) 7.36
    9 punjabi-arain (xing) 7.91
    10 punjabi (harappa) 7.94
    11 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 8.17
    12 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 8.55
    13 sindhi (hgdp) 8.82
    14 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 8.85
    15 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 8.9
    16 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 9.08
    17 burusho (hgdp) 9.46
    18 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 10.08
    19 up-muslim (harappa) 11.5
    20 pashtun (harappa) 12.05

    Population
    ANE 30.34
    ASE 15.13
    WHG-UHG 2.67
    East_Eurasian 2.62
    West_African 0.64
    East_African 1.15
    ENF 47.45

    You likely have some shared ancestry with this person. That's not typical for any Punjabi group that isn't mixed with Pathans, Pashtun, Balochis, or perhaps Sindhi. You can find most of these groups near the southern Indus as well. If you haven't seen my family members on your Ancestry DNA matches already (two of them are on that platform), then it's probably through sheer luck they wind up looking similar.

    So you look like a mix of Pakistani Punjabis, possibly Jatt/Khatri/Brahmin (even mixed with some kind of generic "Mahajir/migrant Punjabi" or Pakistani Punjabis of ambiguous Indian origin, something like what my family has), and some kind of Pathan/Pashtun/Baloch, maybe even Sindhi. Some South Indus groups like Sindhi Lohana have NE-Asian otherwise I'd have figured that was from Pathan/Pashtun or possibly something Kashmiri-like. The ambiguous Indian contribution, if real, would go with a Southern Indus pairing. Some kind of southern Pashtun is still possible because of the low Baloch.

    This kind of combination is common for Pakistan these days. You could very well have recent ancestry from all corners of Pakistan, but your ancestry is definitely a mix of ethnic groups from the Pakistan area.

    Edit: You also have a match, a bit more distant, with someone with the surname Malhotra who looks like Punjabi Khatri or admixed Punjabi Brahmin or Kashmiri Pandit. I think ancestry from one of these groups is probably likely.
    Last edited by Dr_McNinja; 07-25-2016 at 05:44 AM.
    Paternal - Y-DNA: J2b2* (J-M241) Z2432+ Z2433+ Y978+ (J2b2a2b1*) (Hidden Content ) (YFull: YF02959) (FTDNA Kit B6225), mtDNA: M18a* (FTDNA Kit 329180) (YFull: YF63773)
    Maternal- Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2d5a* L657+ Y7+ (R-Y16494*) (FTDNA Kit 311047) (YFull: YF68408), mtDNA: Hidden Content (FTDNA Kit B6225) (YFull: YF02959) (Mother's Mother's Father: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2* Y7+ Y29+ (R-Y29*) (FTDNA Kit 329181) (YFull: YF65256))

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  5. #14
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_McNinja View Post
    Your Harappa results are odd, they look like my family's (which are odd, because our Baloch is low... 35% is low for the Pakistan/Punjab area). We're Jatts but our results are not like the three normal clusters of Jatts (Pahari/Pakistani Jatts, Punjabi Jatt Sikhs, and Haryana Jatts). Other Jatts with results like ours tend to come from the same area around Faisalabad. Where in Punjab is your family from?

    Your Eurogenes ANE K7:

    Population
    ANE 29.04
    ASE 18.36
    WHG-UHG 4.80
    East_Eurasian 3.44
    West_African -
    East_African 2.50
    ENF 41.85

    Your Baloch ancestry is probably real but probably very distant and maybe not even Baloch because your highest relative match is 14.2 cM, South Asian, with the following results:


    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Baloch 41.73
    2 S-Indian 28.16
    3 Caucasian 17.46
    4 NE-Euro 8.31
    5 NE-Asian 1.25
    6 Siberian 0.74
    7 SW-Asian 0.71
    8 American 0.68
    9 Papuan 0.49
    10 Beringian 0.47

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 sindhi (harappa) 4.5
    2 punjabi-khatri (harappa) 5.12
    3 kashmiri (harappa) 5.75
    4 pathan (hgdp) 5.87
    5 kashmiri-pandit (reich) 6.58
    6 kalash (hgdp) 6.91
    7 punjabi-jatt-muslim (harappa) 7
    8 bhatia (harappa) 7.36
    9 punjabi-arain (xing) 7.91
    10 punjabi (harappa) 7.94
    11 punjabi-jatt-sikh (harappa) 8.17
    12 punjabi-brahmin (harappa) 8.55
    13 sindhi (hgdp) 8.82
    14 kashmiri-pahari (harappa) 8.85
    15 gujarati-muslim (harappa) 8.9
    16 singapore-indian-c (sgvp) 9.08
    17 burusho (hgdp) 9.46
    18 punjabi-ramgarhia (harappa) 10.08
    19 up-muslim (harappa) 11.5
    20 pashtun (harappa) 12.05

    Population
    ANE 30.34
    ASE 15.13
    WHG-UHG 2.67
    East_Eurasian 2.62
    West_African 0.64
    East_African 1.15
    ENF 47.45

    You likely have some shared ancestry with this person. That's not typical for any Punjabi group that isn't mixed with Pathans, Pashtun, Balochis, or perhaps Sindhi. You can find most of these groups near the southern Indus as well. If you haven't seen my family members on your Ancestry DNA matches already (two of them are on that platform), then it's probably through sheer luck they wind up looking similar.

    So you look like a mix of Pakistani Punjabis, possibly Jatt/Khatri/Brahmin (even mixed with some kind of generic "Mahajir/migrant Punjabi" or Pakistani Punjabis of ambiguous Indian origin, something like what my family has), and some kind of Pathan/Pashtun/Baloch, maybe even Sindhi. Some South Indus groups like Sindhi Lohana have NE-Asian otherwise I'd have figured that was from Pathan/Pashtun or possibly something Kashmiri-like. The ambiguous Indian contribution, if real, would go with a Southern Indus pairing. Some kind of southern Pashtun is still possible because of the low Baloch.

    This kind of combination is common for Pakistan these days. You could very well have recent ancestry from all corners of Pakistan, but your ancestry is definitely a mix of ethnic groups from the Pakistan area.

    Edit: You also have a match, a bit more distant, with someone with the surname Malhotra who looks like Punjabi Khatri or admixed Punjabi Brahmin or Kashmiri Pandit. I think ancestry from one of these groups is probably likely.
    Wow thank you so much for such an excellent analysis. I really appreciate your help. My dad is from Multan spoken language was Punjabi and mom's side of the family predominantly Lahore but mom was born in Baloch and one of my uncle in Peshawar and similarly Punjabi being the primary language.

    I'm curious. Since Pakistan is a fairly newer country how do I decipher my ancestry? I don't really know what all of this indicates. For instance, I'm coming from the background of we all came out of Africa and migrated outwards. When and where and how did our ancestors get to where they are today in Pakistan? The how being was it through a mass exodus? Was it through war? Was it trade? And when did they settle? And along how long of a period of time? There's some West Asian that shows up in my DNA does that mean they moved upwards to parts of Iran and then South?

    Also, there's another conundrum I came across when I did the Dodecad project. How come Cochin Jews, Jew_India show up in my population approximation? This just seems completely baffling and new to me. It throws a curveball since most of the other approximations are pretty near to one another right?

  6. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJRocks760 View Post
    Wow thank you so much for such an excellent analysis. I really appreciate your help. My dad is from Multan spoken language was Punjabi and mom's side of the family predominantly Lahore but mom was born in Baloch and one of my uncle in Peshawar and similarly Punjabi being the primary language.

    I'm curious. Since Pakistan is a fairly newer country how do I decipher my ancestry? I don't really know what all of this indicates. For instance, I'm coming from the background of we all came out of Africa and migrated outwards. When and where and how did our ancestors get to where they are today in Pakistan? The how being was it through a mass exodus? Was it through war? Was it trade? And when did they settle? And along how long of a period of time? There's some West Asian that shows up in my DNA does that mean they moved upwards to parts of Iran and then South?

    Also, there's another conundrum I came across when I did the Dodecad project. How come Cochin Jews, Jew_India show up in my population approximation? This just seems completely baffling and new to me. It throws a curveball since most of the other approximations are pretty near to one another right?
    Those Jewish populations have extra Caucasian/Middle Eastern admixture, which is why they turn up in the results for people from the northwest of the Indian subcontinent where everyone has a little extra Caucasian/Mideast.

    Multan is near our village (which is in the Faisalabad district, but equidistant between Faisalabad and Multan), so it could be that some of the oddity of these results is from that southern Punjab area. I'd recommend getting both your mom and dad tested to learn more. Especially since they seem to have different histories (didn't help much for me, my parents were cousins and so were their parents!).

    I'd also recommend getting your Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA tested at a place like Family Tree DNA if you're really interested in learning more. You can get pretty much the cheapest mtDNA test and then run the results through this tool to get a decent estimate of your maternal haplogroup:

    https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/

    For Y chromosome, in order to save some money, see if you can order a Y-DNA 12 (12 marker Y-STR) test which should be only $50 (you'll have to ask Family Tree DNA to give you that option since only the more expensive Y-STR tests are on their site), and based off that result, you can guess which individual SNPs or SNP pack tests to order next. We can help you with that.

    National Geographic's Geno 2.0 Next also offers pretty decent Y-DNA/mtDNA testing (which can be imported into Family Tree DNA), but it's $200 to begin with. If we get lucky with the right guesses, we could make it cheaper for you by ordering SNP tests through YSEQ.net ($17.50 per SNP), but it's possible you'd wind up with around $200 either way when all is said and done for the Y chromosome... and National Geographic does give you both mtDNA and Y-DNA for that price.

    The two major sources of ancestry for Pakistani populations are either Bronze Age migrations, possibly invasions, from the Central Asian Steppe that started Indo-European settlements in South Asia (4000-2000ybp) or Neolithic revolution-era (9000-7000ybp) farmers from Iran and South Central Asia. While our lineages are more likely to reflect Steppe ancestry (like 50%), the autosomal makeup still predominantly favors the Neolithic-era makeup of the region.
    Last edited by Dr_McNinja; 07-25-2016 at 05:08 PM.
    Paternal - Y-DNA: J2b2* (J-M241) Z2432+ Z2433+ Y978+ (J2b2a2b1*) (Hidden Content ) (YFull: YF02959) (FTDNA Kit B6225), mtDNA: M18a* (FTDNA Kit 329180) (YFull: YF63773)
    Maternal- Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2d5a* L657+ Y7+ (R-Y16494*) (FTDNA Kit 311047) (YFull: YF68408), mtDNA: Hidden Content (FTDNA Kit B6225) (YFull: YF02959) (Mother's Mother's Father: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2* Y7+ Y29+ (R-Y29*) (FTDNA Kit 329181) (YFull: YF65256))

  7. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by Dr_McNinja View Post
    Those Jewish populations have extra Caucasian/Middle Eastern admixture, which is why they turn up in the results for people from the northwest of the Indian subcontinent where everyone has a little extra Caucasian/Mideast.

    Multan is near our village (which is in the Faisalabad district, but equidistant between Faisalabad and Multan), so it could be that some of the oddity of these results is from that southern Punjab area. I'd recommend getting both your mom and dad tested to learn more. Especially since they seem to have different histories (didn't help much for me, my parents were cousins and so were their parents!).

    I'd also recommend getting your Y chromosome and mitochondrial DNA tested at a place like Family Tree DNA if you're really interested in learning more. You can get pretty much the cheapest mtDNA test and then run the results through this tool to get a decent estimate of your maternal haplogroup:

    https://dna.jameslick.com/mthap/

    For Y chromosome, in order to save some money, see if you can order a Y-DNA 12 (12 marker Y-STR) test which should be only $50 (you'll have to ask Family Tree DNA to give you that option since only the more expensive Y-STR tests are on their site), and based off that result, you can guess which individual SNPs or SNP pack tests to order next. We can help you with that.

    National Geographic's Geno 2.0 Next also offers pretty decent Y-DNA/mtDNA testing (which can be imported into Family Tree DNA), but it's $200 to begin with. If we get lucky with the right guesses, we could make it cheaper for you by ordering SNP tests through YSEQ.net ($17.50 per SNP), but it's possible you'd wind up with around $200 either way when all is said and done for the Y chromosome... and National Geographic does give you both mtDNA and Y-DNA for that price.

    The two major sources of ancestry for Pakistani populations are either Bronze Age migrations, possibly invasions, from the Central Asian Steppe that started Indo-European settlements in South Asia (4000-2000ybp) or Neolithic revolution-era (9000-7000ybp) farmers from Iran and South Central Asia. While our lineages are more likely to reflect Steppe ancestry (like 50%), the autosomal makeup still predominantly favors the Neolithic-era makeup of the region.
    Ok, this is fantastic. When I spoke with Dr. McDonald he told me to get the Y-67 markers from FamilyTreeDNA because he thinks that the smaller amount doesn't provide the results that are that great. He prefers for South Asians to do a much more deeper check so he recommended 67. Not sure which one I'll go with. The cheaper route does seem more do-able for me at the moment.

    Another question, you mentioned the Indo-European settlements in South Asia is that why some of our DNA is shared with East Europeans? Also, so even though the populations show up in my approximation the Jewish admixture is not necessarily in my own genes? How would I find out definitively?

    Thank you.

  8. #17
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    I prefer DrMcNinja's approach. Last year I did a YSTR-25 [no sale's were available at that time] on my mom's cousin which yielded only one match (a 25-2). This is about 700 ybp for a common ancestor. During Christmas I upped it to YSTR-37 (just for kicks) and ordered the recommended R1b-M343 SNP bulk test. The first gave no new information (IMO), but the second showed he belonged to an SNP downstream of R1b-U152, which has a frequency hotspot in the Alps. The MRCA of U152's is estimated at about 4000 ybp, so I'm not sure why we have almost no STR matches, but what is is.
    dp :-)
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  10. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJRocks760 View Post
    Ok, this is fantastic. When I spoke with Dr. McDonald he told me to get the Y-67 markers from FamilyTreeDNA because he thinks that the smaller amount doesn't provide the results that are that great. He prefers for South Asians to do a much more deeper check so he recommended 67. Not sure which one I'll go with. The cheaper route does seem more do-able for me at the moment.

    Another question, you mentioned the Indo-European settlements in South Asia is that why some of our DNA is shared with East Europeans? Also, so even though the populations show up in my approximation the Jewish admixture is not necessarily in my own genes? How would I find out definitively?

    Thank you.
    The SNP tests are now more important than the STR tests since some of these clades have been in South Asia for thousands upon thousands of years. For example, I am J2b2-M241. Y-STR tests for this haplogroup are useless for ancestry purposes because the branches are so far apart and your next closest branch might have completely different results from you and an even further removed branch. I'm separated by the next closest branch by 5400 years.

    Also more and more terminal SNPs are being uncovered and offered for testing at FTDNA and YSEQ.
    Paternal - Y-DNA: J2b2* (J-M241) Z2432+ Z2433+ Y978+ (J2b2a2b1*) (Hidden Content ) (YFull: YF02959) (FTDNA Kit B6225), mtDNA: M18a* (FTDNA Kit 329180) (YFull: YF63773)
    Maternal- Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2d5a* L657+ Y7+ (R-Y16494*) (FTDNA Kit 311047) (YFull: YF68408), mtDNA: Hidden Content (FTDNA Kit B6225) (YFull: YF02959) (Mother's Mother's Father: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2* Y7+ Y29+ (R-Y29*) (FTDNA Kit 329181) (YFull: YF65256))

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  12. #19
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    If I'm finding Western and Eastern European at about 16% total and tons of West Asian and some Mediterranean when I run for instance Dodecad V3 then what would be my race? Do I identify as Pakistani if less than half of the genes show up as South Asian in some but not all admixture tests? Or do I need more info like from the sex chromosome data? Or is that something I need to ultimately decide on? I didn't think there would be questions about this but now I don't know.

  13. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by TJRocks760 View Post
    If I'm finding Western and Eastern European at about 16% total and tons of West Asian and some Mediterranean when I run for instance Dodecad V3 then what would be my race? Do I identify as Pakistani if less than half of the genes show up as South Asian in some but not all admixture tests? Or do I need more info like from the sex chromosome data? Or is that something I need to ultimately decide on? I didn't think there would be questions about this but now I don't know.
    As I said above:

    So you look like a mix of Pakistani Punjabis, possibly Jatt/Khatri/Brahmin (even mixed with some kind of generic "Mahajir/migrant Punjabi" or Pakistani Punjabis of ambiguous Indian origin, something like what my family has), and some kind of Pathan/Pashtun/Baloch, maybe even Sindhi. Some South Indus groups like Sindhi Lohana have NE-Asian otherwise I'd have figured that was from Pathan/Pashtun or possibly something Kashmiri-like. The ambiguous Indian contribution, if real, would go with a Southern Indus pairing. Some kind of southern Pashtun is still possible because of the low Baloch.

    This kind of combination is common for Pakistan these days. You could very well have recent ancestry from all corners of Pakistan, but your ancestry is definitely a mix of ethnic groups from the Pakistan area.
    There isn't an applicable "race" classification for South Asia. We are a mixture of traditional races.
    Paternal - Y-DNA: J2b2* (J-M241) Z2432+ Z2433+ Y978+ (J2b2a2b1*) (Hidden Content ) (YFull: YF02959) (FTDNA Kit B6225), mtDNA: M18a* (FTDNA Kit 329180) (YFull: YF63773)
    Maternal- Y-DNA: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2d5a* L657+ Y7+ (R-Y16494*) (FTDNA Kit 311047) (YFull: YF68408), mtDNA: Hidden Content (FTDNA Kit B6225) (YFull: YF02959) (Mother's Mother's Father: R1a1a1b2a1a2c2* Y7+ Y29+ (R-Y29*) (FTDNA Kit 329181) (YFull: YF65256))

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