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Thread: Map of Germanic Y-DNA in Italy by Passa

  1. #81
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    I once met a Pan-Turanid nationalist who claimed that all of Y-DNA haplogroup F is originally Turkic.

    Because he couldn't find any common genetic denominator for all Turkich peoples younger than F.

    So he concluded that all of F (including everything F+, so 2/3 of all humans) is originally Turkic.

    There are also similar people who claim that every haplogroup carried by modern Germanic-speakers must be originally Germanic. But fortunately they are usually not as insane as these Pan-Turanids.

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  3. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    In 2015 I went to Lusern region with the secretary of the Sprachinseln organisation (Luis Thomas Prader) and among others met with Luigi Nicolussi-Castellan (former major of Lusern). The topic of the "deutschen Sprachinseln" (German language isles) in Italy is very interesting and I learned a lot. See http://www.sprachinseln.it/de/wer-wir-sind.html (German and Italian). Ironically the organisation uses Italian as lingua franca because even close language isolates have so strong dialects, that they can not understand each other easily and the knowledge of High German is not common.
    Another interesting article with map: https://www.salto.bz/article/1406201...r-kulturschatz Attachment 10778

    Lusern people origins: 20 new farms (usually housing 2-3 families) were founded 1216 by Odolric & Henric de Posen (Bozen, was under Bavarian influence) in the Folgaria(Vielgereuth)/Centa area and needed to pay tribute to the bishop of Trento. Later settling is associated with Lavarone and 1442 also connections with Asiago are noted. The three most common modern surnames were dominant already in 1698. The living language is clearly associated with Medieval Bavarian (I can understand half of this more ancient then modern Bavarian/Tyrolean language) and the closest variants (probably ancestral) are from Asiago plateu (7 Gemeinden).

    Zimbern (Cimbri) people origins: the connection to the ancient Cimbri (barbaric invasion in 113 and 101 BC into Roman Empire) was made by Italian Humanists and has no scientific backing but still is common belief. The Langobardi ruled in North Italy (including modern Trentino and some Southern Parts of South Tyrol) from 568 to 774. The Bavarii noblemen did claim Tyrolean land from the 7th to 10th century. Known migrations of Bavarian settlers did occur later as documented for the Zimbern area 1050 in the Codex lat. 4547 of the Bavarian Monastery Benediktbeuern. The Zimbern call themself Tzimbar or Cimbarn which could come from old german zimbar which is carpenter, a profession for which Zimbern were well known in Tyrol. Settlers coming from the Vicentine Alps (previously Bavarians) to Lavarone are associated with wood working and carbon making (traditional business up to modern times).
    You can read more by translating https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbern#Geschichte
    https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavarone#Storia

    Y-Kits in Alpine DNA from the Zimbern area:
    349062, Basso 1778 Asiago, E1b-V13 Alpine-Danube?
    N96626, Paganin 1822 Asiago, I1-Z140 S.German/Veneto-Sloven
    E18044, Rigoni 1854 Asiago, I1-Z140 S.German/Veneto-Sloven
    E10868 Alberti 1350 Foza (Vicenza), R1b-DF27-SRY2627 over S.German migration?
    Very new result of a private Lusern sample R1b-Z2103-PH2789 Moravia/Veneto

    All common north-italian surnames ..............Asiago was also a depository of Veneti who lived prior to WW2 , in slovene and istrian lands and migrated there after WW2 due to Tito policies................2 old friends of mine are from there , Hero and Zoccoler where their surnames

    Father's Mtdna .........T2b17
    Grandfather's Mtdna .......T1a1e
    Sons Mtdna .......K1a4o
    Maternal Grandfather paternal......I1d1-P109
    Maternal side Grandfather .......R1b-S8172
    Wife's Ydna .....R1a-Z282

    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, Y70078+ )

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  5. #83
    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    The Cimbri have a Celtic ethnonym, Celtic material culture (cauldrons, etc.), chieftains with Celtic names, etc. Yes, pretty much everything indicates that they were Celtic, except for strange location (geographical outliers). But look at Asia Minor and those outliers, the Galatians. Also a strange location for a Celtic tribe.

    I haven't seen or read any convincing rebuttal of David Faux's book so far.
    You could say the same thing about the Suebi who fought against Ceasar, but none would claim them to be Celtic.

  6. #84
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    No - we couldn't say the same about the Suebi. Except for their chief with a Celtic name.

    Which probably indicates that they simply had a chieftain or a ruling class of Celtic origin.

    Most importantly, the Suebi were called "Germanic" by the Romans. The Cimbri were not.

  7. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by ChrisR View Post
    In 2015 I went to Lusern region with the secretary of the Sprachinseln organisation (Luis Thomas Prader) and among others met with Luigi Nicolussi-Castellan (former major of Lusern). The topic of the "deutschen Sprachinseln" (German language isles) in Italy is very interesting and I learned a lot. See http://www.sprachinseln.it/de/wer-wir-sind.html (German and Italian). Ironically the organisation uses Italian as lingua franca because even close language isolates have so strong dialects, that they can not understand each other easily and the knowledge of Standard German is not common.
    Another interesting article with map: https://www.salto.bz/article/1406201...r-kulturschatz Attachment 10778

    Lusern people origins: 20 new farms (usually housing 2-3 families) were founded 1216 by Odolric & Henric de Posen (Bozen, was under Bavarian influence) in the Folgaria(Vielgereuth)/Centa area and needed to pay tribute to the bishop of Trento. Later settling is associated with Lavarone and 1442 also connections with Asiago are noted. The three most common modern surnames were dominant already in 1698. The living language is clearly associated with Medieval Bavarian (I can understand half of this more ancient then modern Bavarian/Tyrolean language) and the closest variants (probably ancestral) are from Asiago plateu (7 Gemeinden).

    Zimbern (Cimbri) people origins: the connection to the ancient Cimbri (barbaric invasion in 113 and 101 BC into Roman Empire) was made by Italian Humanists and has no scientific backing but still is common belief. The Langobardi ruled in North Italy (including modern Trentino and some Southern Parts of South Tyrol) from 568 to 774. The Bavarii noblemen did claim Tyrolean land from the 7th to 10th century. Known migrations of Bavarian settlers did occur later as documented for the Zimbern area 1050 in the Codex lat. 4547 of the Bavarian Monastery Benediktbeuern. The Zimbern call themself Tzimbar or Cimbarn which could come from old german zimbar which is carpenter, a profession for which Zimbern were well known in Tyrol. Settlers coming from the Vicentine Alps (previously Bavarians) to Lavarone are associated with wood working and carbon making (traditional business up to modern times).
    You can read more by translating https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zimbern#Geschichte
    https://it.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lavarone#Storia

    Y-Kits in Alpine DNA from the Zimbern area:
    349062, Basso 1778 Asiago, E1b-V13 Alpine-Danube?
    N96626, Paganin 1822 Asiago, I1-Z140 S.German/Veneto-Sloven
    E18044, Rigoni 1854 Asiago, I1-Z140 S.German/Veneto-Sloven
    E10868 Alberti 1350 Foza (Vicenza), R1b-DF27-SRY2627 over S.German migration?
    Very new result of a private Lusern sample R1b-Z2103-PH2789 Moravia/Veneto
    Thanks ChrisR for your post! Surnames are all northern Italian but Asiago and Foza are undoubtedly places with a large Cimbrian inheritance. I think this is a good example of Cimbrian language in north Italy (Zimbar earde)


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  9. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Morges View Post
    Postimg stopped working and the map is not visible. I saved it, so reposting via Imgur:


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