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Thread: DISCUSSION THREAD FOR "Genetic Genealogy and Ancient DNA in the News"

  1. #2151
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    Italy 1861-1946 France-Ile-de-France Lorraine
    About Latin as an Indo-European dialect, back to basics : Mallory & Adams, Oxford Introduction to PIE

    2.3 Italic
    Latin is the principal Italic language but it only achieved its particular prominence with the expansion of the Roman state in the first centuries bc. It is earliest attested in inscriptions that date from c. 620 bc onwards and are described as Old Latin. The main source of our Latin evidence for an Indo-Europeanist derives from the more familiar Classical Latin that emerges about the first century bc. The closest linguistic relation to Latin is Faliscan, a language (or dialect) spoken about 40 km north of Rome and also attested in inscriptions from c. 600 bc until the first centuries bc when the region was assimilated entirely into the Latin language.
    South of Rome lay the Samnites who employed the Oscan language, attested in inscriptions, including graffiti on the walls of the destroyed city of Pompeii, beginning about the fifth century bc. There are also about two hundred other documents, usually quite short, in the Oscan language. Oscan finds a close relation in Umbrian, which was spoken north of Rome, and, after Latin, provides the next largest corpus of Italic textual material.

    Table 2.6. The evidence of the Italic languages
    Latin-Faliscan
    Latin
    Old Latin (c.620–80 bc)
    Classical Latin (c.80 bc–ad 120)
    Late Latin (ad 120–c.1000)
    Faliscan (600–100 bc)
    Osco-Umbrian
    Oscan (500–1 bc)
    Umbrian (300–1 bc)
    Eurogenes G25: 75% Beaker_Bavaria+25% Mycenaean
    Eurogenes K36: 75% Swiss_German+25% Italian_Campania

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  3. #2152
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    Do we know if post-Neolithic EEF was the largest admixture for most of the samples and for the ones that weren't they were outliers? Based on what was said that seems likely, but just making certain.

  4. #2153
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    You know it's interesting 40% of those Iron age -Republic genomes overlap with Southern Italians....I guess if this holds up the Southern Italian genetic profile predates the Roman Empire?

    Sounds like it's much more influenced by Greeks and Phoenicians than "Levantine slaves" from the Roman Empire or North African-Berber ancestry from the Middle Ages.
    Last edited by Arch Hades; 02-09-2019 at 05:32 AM.

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  6. #2154
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    Everyone should read the more recent posts in the "Could Western Jews descend from Aegeans and Levantine admixture" thread in this Ancient aDna section for an excellent and full discussion of this Italy paper.

    Post #4755 by Erikl86 is particularly good.
    Last edited by Cascio; 02-09-2019 at 08:40 AM.

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  8. #2155
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    One of the big things about Rome is that it's kind of test case (*the* test case) for ideas about how ancient cities generally demographically impacted the countryside and periphery around them (or did not!).

    A common theory at the moment (supported by some fairly smart people) is of ancient urban areas as demographic sinks - people migrate in, but are generally loath or unable to leave for the countryside, and cities have high mortality rates due to disease, crime and weaker buffering social fabric. Therefore, where cities are targets of long range migration, this then has far weaker impact on the ancestry pool of later generations than would appear to be the case from the size of the cities as % of total population and their composition.

    Comparing the Roman region and city with the countryside, with the further advantage of having groups that relatively easy to distinguish, will actually allow us to directly support or falsify this idea, in that case. This will then inform our models about what actually happened with all other world cities (Asian metropolises, Hanseatic league trade towns and so on).

    Like, if we find that Rome changes, then the countryside changes, that gives some more weight to actually migrations to Rome then radiating outwards and changing the country, or if we find both changing at once, that would change our ideas about how much migration was preferentially to large cities or towns.

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    Quote Originally Posted by VedicScholar View Post
    Makes sense, but some have suggested the links are not quite so clear .

    ''The (succeeding) Polada culture seems clearly different and distinguishable from the BB one; something confirmed by the evidence that a BB vase has never been found in a Polada context''

    Northern Italy around 2200 BC... Leonardi, Cupito, et al. 2015
    I think Leonardi is saying that Polada is already its own proper culture. If the continued use of stone wrist guards and begleitkeramik is not enough to associate them from an archaeological perspective, then I don't know what is. Also, several see continued movement from the Danube during that period as well, the very region that is almost exclusively R-U152+
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543, Pietro della Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

  11. #2157
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    Bosniensis is a known troll from TA. These trolling discussions from there shouldn't be allowed in this forum.

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  13. #2158
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    Gibraltar Neandertals DNA was sequenced by Paabo's lab, however the results are not yet published: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B8LXFclmDDM

    Lukas Bokelmann, Mateja Hajdinjak, Selina Brace, Ian Barnes, Svante Pääbo, Matthias Meyer, Chris Stringer - Novel DNA Library Preparation Method allows first Retrieval of DNA from the Gibraltar Neanderthals

    Part of #NEANDERTHAL: The Conference which was organised by the Gibraltar National Museum from 13th to 15th September 2018 at the University of Gibraltar.

    The Neanderthals of Gibraltar represent a challenge for ancient DNA retrieval because the local climatic conditions are less than optimal for DNA preservation and the long period of human handling has led to an accumulation of modern human DNA on the specimens. To determine whether any traces of Neanderthal DNA can be detected in the specimens, we sampled 36 and 20 mg petrous bone powder of the Neanderthals from Forbes’ Quarry and Devil’s Tower, respectively, extracted DNA and generated single-stranded libraries for sequencing. As expected, the vast majority of the DNA fragments that could be identified as hominin derive from recent human contamination. However, we also detected the presence of trace amounts of Neanderthal DNA. In order to allow the generation of genomic data from these and other difficult samples, we developed a new library generation protocol, which selects for molecules carrying deaminated cytosine residues more efficiently than previous protocols. Since deaminated cytosine residues occur much more frequently in ancient DNA molecules than in contaminating present-day DNA, it allows us to preferentially isolate ancient DNA molecules rather than modern human DNA molecules before sequencing. When we employ this new protocol we are able to retrieve 0.3% and 4% of the nuclear genomes of the Devil’s Tower and Forbes’ Quarry Neanderthals respectively. We are currently analyzing these data to establish their relationships to other Neanderthals whose genomes have been previously sequenced, particularly late Neanderthals from Europe. We hope that the improvement of methods for sequencing library preparation will allow genomic data generation over a broader geographical and temporal scale, and thus enhance our understanding not only of Neanderthal population history but also of other organisms.
    Last edited by rozenfeld; 02-12-2019 at 04:50 AM.

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  15. #2159
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    Not DNA, but may be relevant:

    https://www.sciencemag.org/news/2019...gins-monuments

    https://www.sciencenews.org/article/...-origin-france

    The spread of Europe’s giant stone monuments may trace back to one region

    Ancient sea travelers carried the knowledge of how to build megaliths from France

    Original article:

    https://www.pnas.org/content/early/2.../05/1813268116

    Radiocarbon dates and Bayesian modeling support maritime diffusion model for megaliths in Europe

    B. Schulz Paulsson

    PNAS published ahead of print February 11, 2019 https://doi.org/10.1073/pnas.1813268116

    Significance

    For thousands of years, prehistoric societies built monumental grave architecture and erected standing stones in the coastal regions of Europe (4500–2500 calibrated years BC). Our understanding of the rise of these megalithic societies is contentious and patchy; the origin for the emergence of megalithic architecture in various regions has been controversial and debated for over 100 y. The result presented here, based on analyses of 2,410 radiocarbon dates and highly precise chronologies for megalithic sites and related contexts, suggests maritime mobility and intercultural exchange. We argue for the transfer of the megalithic concept over sea routes emanating from northwest France, and for advanced maritime technology and seafaring in the megalithic Age.

    Abstract

    There are two competing hypotheses for the origin of megaliths in Europe. The conventional view from the late 19th and early 20th centuries was of a single-source diffusion of megaliths in Europe from the Near East through the Mediterranean and along the Atlantic coast. Following early radiocarbon dating in the 1970s, an alternative hypothesis arose of regional independent developments in Europe. This model has dominated megalith research until today. We applied a Bayesian statistical approach to 2,410 currently available radiocarbon results from megalithic, partly premegalithic, and contemporaneous nonmegalithic contexts in Europe to resolve this long-standing debate. The radiocarbon results suggest that megalithic graves emerged within a brief time interval of 200 y to 300 y in the second half of the fifth millennium calibrated years BC in northwest France, the Mediterranean, and the Atlantic coast of Iberia. We found decisive support for the spread of megaliths along the sea route in three main phases. Thus, a maritime diffusion model is the most likely explanation of their expansion.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rozenfeld View Post
    Ancient sea travelers carried the knowledge of how to build megaliths from France
    This is basically what Chad was referrencing on his latest blog post

    https://populationgenomics.blog/2019...k-in-progress/
    YDNA - E-Y31991>PF4428. Domingos Rodrigues, b. circa 1680 Hidden Content , Viana do Castelo, Portugal
    mtDNA - H20. Maria Josefa de Almeida, b. circa 1750 Hidden Content , Porto, Portugal

    Global25 PCA plot Hidden Content ; Western Europe-only Hidden Content
    Hidden Content

    [1] "distance%=2.2305"

    Ruderico

    Hallstatt_Bylany,43.4
    Iberia_BA,34.4
    Roman_Collegno_o1,18.4
    Iberomaurusian,3.8

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