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Thread: DISCUSSION THREAD FOR "Genetic Genealogy and Ancient DNA in the News"

  1. #2341
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    Quote Originally Posted by ybmpark View Post
    Andaman 100BP guy is clearly P. The number of SNPs I found is overwhelming. The majority were ancestral for all K2b1's that returned non-null results.
    On the other hand Jehai 06 had just 1 SNP that was derived in all K2b2 and ancestral in K2b1.
    But in my opinion you need 2 in order to ascertain. A lot of SNPs not listed by ISOGG are unstable and these SNPs need to be tested more. So far I weeded out those that appeared unstable and the above is the result of that process.
    K2b1 and K2b2 show some kind of geographical differnetiation. No indigenous K2b2 was found beyond Wallace line as far as I know and no indigenous K2b1 before the Wallace line though the latter is a bit murky to determine.
    Did you find the status of his F115?

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  3. #2342
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    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    What are you talking about?
    Apparently some scientists are not going along some of Reich's Claims, but what claims?

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  5. #2343
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Did you find the status of his F115?
    It was either 0(no result) or ancestral.

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  7. #2344
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    Some R1b crusaders, but I haven't looked which are local, mixed, or from western Europe, although I could take a guess. Surprisingly no I2 or I1 fellows, but it's probably the small sample.

    https://www.cell.com/action/showFull...2819%2930111-9

    Interesting little tidbit is the DF27 guy plots with Neolithic Anatolians and the L21+ guy plots with Ashkenazi jews and South Italians. Looks like the DF27 position could be the result of an admixture event between a north Spanish/Basque like person with a coastal or inland Middle Easterner. Although the fact that his mtDNA is HV0a which I always assumed to be west European is perplexing, but I suppose it may have an older origin in the Middle East dating back to the Neolithic.
    Last edited by ADW_1981; 04-18-2019 at 04:46 PM.
    YDNA: R1b-Z220 (A7066+) (1800's Stepney, London(Bethnal Green), UK George Wood b. 1782
    maternal-grandfather YDNA: prob. I1 Gurr, George 1843, Feversham, Kent, England.
    maternal-grandmother YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggrandfather YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton mdka Ireland(?) < 1800s

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  9. #2345
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    Some R1b crusaders, but I haven't looked which are local, mixed, or from western Europe, although I could take a guess. Surprisingly no I2 or I1 fellows, but it's probably the small sample.

    https://www.cell.com/action/showFull...2819%2930111-9

    Interesting little tidbit is the DF27 guy plots with Neolithic Anatolians and the L21+ guy plots with Ashkenazi jews and South Italians. Looks like the DF27 position could be the result of an admixture event between a north Spanish/Basque like person with a coastal or inland Middle Easterner. Although the fact that his mtDNA is HV0a which I always assumed to be west European is perplexing, but I suppose it may have an older origin in the Middle East dating back to the Neolithic.
    they did mention in the case of the Admixed-group SI53(L21+) and SI41(DF27+) that they were locally admixed rather than from groups they overlap with but SI41 also had SSA admixture which doesnt turn up in the contemporary Near-Eastern-group so maybe additional, or different groups altogether, they intemixed with as SI53 also has very low levantine; SI40 who overlaps with sardinians seems to be however more of a basque backround in qpAdm(supp);

    edit: @#2346 down below
    they got a whole passage in the text, in fact much of the text, dedicated to those two SI41/SI53 aka the Admixed-group We found that a mixture between a medieval Lebanese and a Croatian or a medieval Lebanese and a Hungarian could reproduce the PCA position of SI-53, while a mixture between a Saudi and a Norwegian, or a Bedouin and a Northern Spanish, could reproduce the position of SI-41 (Figure 3b) .... For individual SI-41, the best-supported model is a descent from a Near Easterner related to a Bedouin or a Saudi and a European related to Northern Spanish or Basques (Figure 3C, Table S3). For individual SI-53, the best-supported models involved a Near Easterner related to medieval Lebanese, Lebanese Christians, or Jews and a European who can be from diverse origins .... any genetically equivalent populations could have been involved, but the admixture patterns in SI-41 and SI-53 suggest our data (1) provide direct genetic evidence of admixture between Crusaders and Near Easterners .... The combined results from the Y and mtDNA haplogroups suggest that SI-41 and SI-53 possibly had a European father and a Near Easterner mother, but a more complex admixture scenario .... with the implication that admixture in SI-53 could then have occurred before the Crusaders’ time and in Europe instead of in the Near East. However, our results (Table S6) show that the Europeans have in general a distinct admixture pattern from the one observed in SI-53; among the populations tested, Ashkenazi Jews’ Near Eastern ancestry is mostly related to Near Eastern Jews, Sicilians’ European ancestry is related to Italians, and Southern Italians have Northern Italians as top sources of their European ancestry

    and so on and so forth there is alot more info in text and supp
    Last edited by alexfritz; 04-18-2019 at 05:41 PM.
    Geno2.0NG 51%SEurope 19%WCEurope 13%Scandinavia 5%AsiaMinor 4%EEurope 4%GB&Ireland 3%Arabia myOrigins 52%WCEurope 40%SEEurope 5%BritishIsles 3%WMiddleEast DNA.Land 49%NWEuropean 27%SEuropean 13%MedIslander 11%Sardinian myHeritage 51.8%NWEuropean 33.2%Italian 7.9%Greek&SouthItalian 7.1%Balkan gencove 29%NItaly 19%EMed 15%NBritishIsles 12%SWEurope 10%NCEurope 9%Scandinavia 6%NEEurope GenePlazaK29 54.4%NWEurope 37.6%Greek/Albania 5.6%WAsian 2.4%SWAsia

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  11. #2346
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    Quote Originally Posted by alexfritz View Post
    they did mention in the case of the admixed-group SI53(L21+) and SI41(DF27+) that they were locally admixed rather than from groups they overlap with but SI41 also had SSA admixture which doesnt turn up in the contemporary near-eastern-group so maybe additional or different groups altogetehr they intemixed with as SI53 also has very low levantine; SI40 who overlaps with sardinians seems to be however more of a basque backround in qpAdm(supp);
    Their best fit for the European portion of SI41 was Northern Spanish or Basque:

    In particular, SI-41 carried the DF27 lineage, which is highly prevalent in Iberia (up to 70% of males in Basque) and rare elsewhere,30 supporting our previous results from the autosomal variants that this individual descended from a European related to Northern Spanish or Basques.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543, Pietro della Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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  13. #2347
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.Rocca View Post
    Their best fit for the European portion of SI41 was Northern Spanish or Basque:
    Hidalgos?

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  15. #2348
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    Quote Originally Posted by R.Rocca View Post
    Their best fit for the European portion of SI41 was Northern Spanish or Basque:
    The odd admixture of SI41 could have actually happened in Spain. The Eighth Crusade in Tunisia rolled right into the Ninth Crusade in Tripoli. Present in the Eighth Crusade was Theobald II of Navarre, who was the son-in-law of King Louis IX of France. There was a long history between Navarre and the Muwallad Dynasty and the Caliphate of Cordoba. So the admixture could have happened in Spain and not in Lebanon.

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  17. #2349
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webb View Post
    The odd admixture of SI41 could have actually happened in Spain. The Eighth Crusade in Tunisia rolled right into the Ninth Crusade in Tripoli. Present in the Eighth Crusade was Theobald II of Navarre, who was the son-in-law of King Louis IX of France. There was a long history between Navarre and the Muwallad Dynasty and the Caliphate of Cordoba. So the admixture could have happened in Spain and not in Lebanon.
    Could be, but it looks like they used an extensive enough population set that they would have found North Iberia + Morocco a better fit, no?

    Also, what I get from recent papers is that the Reconquista actually re-expanded northern Iberian genes southward, with a lessening of Morocco like ancestry. I think that points more to an adversarial relationship with Islamic populations.
    Paternal: R1b-U152 >> L2 >> FGC10543, Pietro della Rocca, b. 1559, Agira, Sicily, Italy
    Maternal: H4a1-T152C!, Maria Coto, b. ~1864, Galicia, Spain
    Mother's Paternal: J1+ FGC4745/FGC4766+ PF5019+, Gerardo Caprio, b. 1879, Caposele, Avellino, Campania, Italy
    Father's Maternal: T2b-C150T, Francisca Santa Cruz, b.1916, Garganchon, Burgos, Spain
    Paternal Great (x3) Grandfather: R1b-U106 >> L48 >> CTS2509, Filippo Ensabella, b.~1836, Agira, Sicily, Italy

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  19. #2350
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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    Some R1b crusaders, but I haven't looked which are local, mixed, or from western Europe, although I could take a guess. Surprisingly no I2 or I1 fellows, but it's probably the small sample.

    https://www.cell.com/action/showFull...2819%2930111-9

    Interesting little tidbit is the DF27 guy plots with Neolithic Anatolians and the L21+ guy plots with Ashkenazi jews and South Italians. Looks like the DF27 position could be the result of an admixture event between a north Spanish/Basque like person with a coastal or inland Middle Easterner. Although the fact that his mtDNA is HV0a which I always assumed to be west European is perplexing, but I suppose it may have an older origin in the Middle East dating back to the Neolithic.
    This is why I plot with Central/South Italians and Ashkenazim. I've usually just gone with "LebaGermish" as a listed nationality, but now I'm thinking of changing it to "Crusader Pit."

    Eurogenes K13:

    Single Population Sharing:

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Italian_Abruzzo 6.88
    2 West_Sicilian 9.5
    3 Tuscan 10.47
    4 East_Sicilian 11
    5 Central_Greek 11.05
    6 Greek_Thessaly 11.95
    7 South_Italian 12.2
    8 Ashkenazi 12.61
    9 Sephardic_Jewish 14.61
     

    10 North_Italian 15.4
    11 Italian_Jewish 15.63
    12 Bulgarian 17.17
    13 Algerian_Jewish 17.42
    14 Romanian 17.76
    15 Tunisian_Jewish 18.69
    16 Libyan_Jewish 19.38
    17 Serbian 20.82
    18 Portuguese 21.62
    19 Spanish_Extremadura 21.68
    20 Spanish_Murcia 22.32


    Mixed Mode Population Sharing:

    # Primary Population (source) Secondary Population (source) Distance
    1 53.4% French + 46.6% Lebanese_Druze @ 2.91
    2 55.6% Lebanese_Druze + 44.4% Southwest_English @ 3.04
    3 54% Lebanese_Christian + 46% Southwest_English @ 3.08
    4 55.1% Lebanese_Christian + 44.9% West_Scottish @ 3.21
    5 53% Lebanese_Christian + 47% Southeast_English @ 3.49
    6 55% Lebanese_Christian + 45% Irish @ 3.61

    Also, I too have a [Lebanese] mtDNA that is normally associated with northwestern Europe/Baltic, but it seems there was also a long-established subclade of it in the Levant.
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112 (S17075-)

    Y-cousin: 6DRIF-23 (DF19>>Z17112+, S17075+)

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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