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Thread: DISCUSSION THREAD FOR "Genetic Genealogy and Ancient DNA in the News"

  1. #2551
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    Quote Originally Posted by Nebuchadnezzar II View Post
    Not a study per say but in news pertaining to aDNA and population genetics, there is a book out by Angela Saini - "Superior: The Return of Race Science". I've seen substantial debate on twitter (as one might expect) between several in the pop.gen community about the book and critiques of what it attempts to express.

    Among one of the more common I've observed is the sense that Saini conflates the study of human genetic variation and in particular, population structure, as a reversion to pseudo-scientific race studies of the past. As such, they allege that Saini implicates many mainstream geneticists in a kind of "conspiracy" to rebrand race science to the public as the study of human genetic variation and population structure.

    Having not yet read the book, I can't speak on the accuracy of this criticism; or whether the book is any good at all. I'd like to know whether anyone on the forum has read it or has heard any similar critiques? On this topic - How should one describe population structure and human genetic variation to a layperson without associating it with 'race'? I.e what is a 'population', 'ancestry', 'admixture' - how is variation structured? Is it clinal? clustered? or both? What proportion of Fst is accounted for by geographic obstacles to gene flow vs IBD etc.

    I think it's of value to be able to effectively communicate these things to the public, because it doesn't take much to malign the field with accusations of rebranding race, not to mention the priceless concession it would be to actual racists who seek to launder their ignorant views into mainstream discourses via pop.gen.
    Hear, hear. This ilk of "scholars" has always written about biological anthropology in a stupidly venomous way. What they don't understand, largely because they are philosophically ignorant I suppose, is that even if we discovered incontrovertible evidence of significant cognitive or physical average differences between populations, it would be a morally irrelevant finding. Human rights and basic human dignity should not be tethered to the notion that we are all biologically equal. Not only do you unnecessarily make yourself a hostage to fortune when you assume disparity justifies marginalization, you do so without any justification.

    Being smarter or faster than someone else does not entitle you to oppress that person, let alone hate them. That's not to say that differences would be totally inconsequential in terms of policies designed to intelligently mitigate or eliminate disparity, but an ethical mind has no reason to fear the truth. We understand that people with Down syndrome need special attention, but we don't force them to drink out of separate water fountains. Psychic differences between populations, such as they are, are nothing so dramatic as the difference between a genius and an idiot from the same population.
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

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  3. #2552
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    i was looking for a discussion on this:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0605133524.htm
    DNA from 31,000-year-old milk teeth leads to discovery of new group of ancient Siberians
    Date:
    June 5, 2019
    Source:
    St John's College, University of Cambridge
    Summary:
    Two children's milk teeth buried deep in a remote archaeological site in north eastern Siberia have revealed a previously unknown group of people lived there during the last Ice Age. The finding was part of a wider study which also discovered 10,000 year-old human remains in another site in Siberia are genetically related to Native Americans -- the first time such close genetic links have been discovered outside of the US.
    K13 : 55.7% North_Dutch + 44.3% Spanish_Andalucia @ 1,7
    K15 : 79.6% Orcadian + 20.4% Sardinian @ 3,27
    Of course one population is French... @ 4,09 and 5,38 for K13 and K15.
    Y-DNA of ancestors include R-M269, J-M67 (from 23andMe genocousins -12 lines to this ancestor),
    J-CTS1192 and E-L117 (from French Heritage DNA Project at FT-DNA)

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  5. #2553
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    Quote Originally Posted by Titane View Post
    i was looking for a discussion on this:
    https://www.sciencedaily.com/release...0605133524.htm
    There is a thread on the preprint of this paper:
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....(Sikora-et-al)

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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    Some aDNA potentially on the way from Medieval Mainz in Germany. The sarcophagus of an important individual has been opened, apparently using techniques that should avoid modern DNA contamination as far as I can see on the video:


    "Because the individual was buried centrally in the nave of the church, “pointing towards the altar” the team of experts are inclined to believe the remains might belong to a clergyman, possibly Erkanbald, who was Archbishop of Mainz between AD 1011 and 1021. “It's still possible that it's him," Faccani said.” Erkanbald, of the family of the counts of Ölsburg was related to Bernard III of Sommerescheburg, Bishop of Hildesheim and for his part in the election of Henry IV, Duke of Bavaria, as King of Germany, Erkanbald who was at the time ‘abbot of Fulda’ was rewarded in AD 1011 with the ancient see of Mainz.


    "The samples of fabric are being analyzed by a textile expert to determine their age. Bone and tissue samples will be dated and DNA tested."


    https://www.ancient-origins.net/news...phagus-0012116
    Good stuff. I hope they are able to get some DNA, it sounds like it might be tough work.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Elector_of_Mainz

    Somewhat related note: My 4th great-grandfather was a banker (Court Jew) for the last Archbishop of Mainz -- whose predecessor had already relocated to Aschaffenburg because the French were occupying Mainz.
    R1b>M269>L23>L51>L11>P312>DF19>DF88>FGC11833 >S4281>S4268>Z17112 (S17075-)

    Y-cousin: 6DRIF-23 (DF19>>Z17112+, S17075+)

    Ancestors: Francis Cooke (M223/I2a2a) b1583; Hester Mahieu (Cooke) (J1c2 mtDNA) b.1584; Richard Warren (E-M35) b1578; Elizabeth Walker (Warren) (H1j mtDNA) b1583;
    John Mead (I2a1/P37.2) b1634; Rev. Joseph Hull (I1, L1301+ L1302-) b1595; Benjamin Harrington (M223/I2a2a-Y5729) b1618; Joshua Griffith (L21>DF13) b1593;
    John Wing (U106) b1584; Hermann Wilhelm (DF19) b1635

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  9. #2555
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    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGW67OAbXD4

    Around 38:53 Stephan Schiffels says that their lab has more than 70 samples from all over Britain relevant to the question about Anglo-Saxon migration.

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  11. #2556
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    Quote Originally Posted by rozenfeld View Post
    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qGW67OAbXD4

    Around 38:53 Stephan Schiffels says that their lab has more than 70 samples from all over Britain relevant to the question about Anglo-Saxon migration.
    Basic amateurish question because I was excited to read this and then watch the video: can we expect a paper on these samples, or is it a side issue given other work at Max Planck and so the data might never see the light of day as a discrete study?
    Living DNA Cautious mode:
    South Wales Border-related ancestry: 86.8%
    Cornwall: 8%
    Cumbria-related ancestry: 5.2%
    Y line: Peak District, England. Big Y match: Scania, Sweden; TMRCA 1,280 ybp (YFull);
    mtDNA: traces to Glamorgan, Wales, 18th century. Mother's Y line (Wales): R-L21 L371

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  13. #2557
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    Quote Originally Posted by JonikW View Post
    Basic amateurish question because I was excited to read this and then watch the video: can we expect a paper on these samples, or is it a side issue given other work at Max Planck and so the data might never see the light of day as a discrete study?
    I'd hope we'd see the results published eventually for these 75 or so samples, though they may not be as interesting as other samples from papers that are set to come out.

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  15. #2558
    400 individuals of Beaker culture analysed:
    https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/palae...icle_id=451716

    Data available?

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  17. #2559
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tobias.Kemper View Post
    400 individuals of Beaker culture analysed:
    https://www.deutschlandfunk.de/palae...icle_id=451716

    Data available?
    They certainly refer to the Olalde study from 2018, even though the 400 individuals were from various epochs and cultures and "just" 226 from the BBC.

    The Beaker phenomenon and the genomic transformation of northwest Europe

    From around 2750 to 2500BC, Bell Beaker pottery became widespread across western and central Europe, before it disappeared between 2200 and 1800BC. The forces that propelled its expansion are a matter of long-standing debate, and there is support for both cultural diffusion and migration having a role in this process. Here we present genome-wide data from 400 Neolithic, Copper Age and Bronze Age Europeans, including 226 individuals associated with Beaker-complex artefacts. We detected limited genetic affinity between Beaker-complex-associated individuals from Iberia and central Europe, and thus exclude migration as an important mechanism of spread between these two regions. However, migration had a key role in the further dissemination of the Beaker complex. We document this phenomenon most clearly in Britain, where the spread of the Beaker complex introduced high levels of steppe-related ancestry and was associated with the replacement of approximately 90% of Britain’s gene pool within a few hundred years, continuing the east-to-west expansion that had brought steppe-related ancestry into central and northern Europe over the previous centuries.
    Study | Supplementary Material


    Not related to the post but I wish they would finally start studying the really interesting (to most people, I guess) epochs and cultures.
    Of course, the more ancient DNA, the better, generally. But what's the excuse for publishing the twentieth or so study about the early or middle Neolithic (like Ancient genomes indicate population replacement in Early Neolithic Britain) just to reiterate things we know by now and, for the most part, already knew from archaeology and physical anthropology anyway, when we still don't have early Germanics, no continental Celts (save for two from the periphery, one probably mixed with Scythians), no Romans nor Etruscans (although that's at least on the way now), no Classical Greeks nor Macedonians, no early (proto-)Slavs, no Sumerians, no real Hittites etc.
    Last edited by Chnodomar; 06-21-2019 at 09:44 AM.

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