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Thread: Genetic Genealogy & Ancient DNA in the News (DISCUSSION ONLY)

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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    This is to be expected. ANE might have been important in the whole of eastern Siberia during the time of Yana, but it looks to have been replaced by Proto-American East Asians later on, who later mixed with ANEs related to Afontova more than Yana. The new Siberia paper didn't include a qpgraph, but it seems pretty likely that Khaiyrgas is a more ANE-admixed cousin of Kolyma and Ust-Kyakhta (also Proto-American East Asians).
    I don't understand, Yana is like 30 000 years old and afontova gora is 15 000 yo. What has yana do with all of this ? AF is supposed to be descendant of groups closely related to Yana if i understand correctly.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Dieu View Post
    I don't understand, Yana is like 30 000 years old and afontova gora is 15 000 yo. What has yana do with all of this ? AF is supposed to be descendant of groups closely related to Yana if i understand correctly.
    Yana is the oldest ANE lineage we have, but the ANE ancestry seen in Amerinds and Siberians is apparently more closely related to Malta and Afontova Gora. Yana doesn't seem to have left much in the way of descendants. In other words, the Proto-Americans didn't mix with early Yana-like ANE but with later ANE from the west. The only reason I brought it up at all is because Eastern Siberia was taken over by Proto-American East Asians moving in from the south at some point after Yana lived, so it's not surprising to see a lot of Proto-American ancestry on the Lena near Lake Baikal 17,000 years ago. That's exactly when I'd expect it to be there. And Khaiyrgas has more ANE ancestry than its relatives to the east, in line with geography and its proximity to AG3.
    Last edited by Michalis Moriopoulos; 01-15-2021 at 09:34 AM.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    Yana is the oldest ANE lineage we have, but the ANE ancestry seen in Amerinds and Siberians is apparently more closely related to Malta and Afontova Gora. Yana doesn't seem to have left much in the way of descendants. In other words, the Proto-Americans didn't mix with early Yana-like ANE but with later ANE from the west. The only reason I brought it up at all is because Eastern Siberia was taken over by Proto-American East Asians moving in from the south at some point after Yana lived, so it's not surprising to see a lot of Proto-American ancestry on the Lena near Lake Baikal 17,000 years ago. That's exactly when I'd expect it to be there. And Khaiyrgas has more ANE ancestry than its relatives to the east, in line with geography and its proximity to AG3.
    So was Yana a northeastern outpost of an ANE population located to the southwest?

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    Quote Originally Posted by davit View Post
    So was Yana a northeastern outpost of an ANE population located to the southwest?
    It would be parsimonious to assume that's the case, sure. Speculative map of migrations in Northeast Asia from Ning et al:

     


    Khairgyas-1 would fit into the third frame down on the left.
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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Also this I think is incorrect: "pleads for a processual approach to migration quite different from the single-event, conquest model of Gimbutas"
    Gimbutas had proposed "The Kurgan Expansions" in three waves.
    https://books.google.com/books?id=tzU3RIV2BWIC&pg=PA339
    If one reads Gimbutas (and I'm not saying Anthony did not), he will realize that characterizing what she believed as some sort of "single event" (or three single events) is a gross over simplification.
    Last edited by rms2; 01-15-2021 at 07:08 PM.

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    We must also keep in mind that already at the time depth of 30,000 years ago ANE population represented by Yana and Eastern Eurasian population represented by Salkhit were mixed:

    Salkhit and other UP Eurasians.PNG

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    Indeed. It should also be mentioned the East Eurasian stuff in Yana, Salkhit, and arguably MA1 and AG3 is in my opinion from a more basal East Eurasian lineage than the Proto-American lineage that came into the area later.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    Indeed. It should also be mentioned the East Eurasian stuff in Yana, Salkhit, and arguably MA1 and AG3 is in my opinion from a more basal East Eurasian lineage than the Proto-American lineage that came into the area later.
    Tianyuan would fit.

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    It is also interesting to note that the same Siberian population that gave rise to modern Siberians, Native Americans and mainstream East Asians carried mtDNA haplogroups A, B, C'Z and D and developed EDAR, probably in order to adapt to the environment.

    Three UP mtDNA haplotypes that have been detected came extinct in Siberia, i.e. Salkhit N*, Yana U2’3’4’7’8 and Malta1 U*. Tianyuan B* seems to have been more succesful even if this exact haplotype is not exactly ancestral to modern B.

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    https://trace.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/Trace...tudy=ERP121113

    The Cycladic, the Minoan, and the Helladic (Mycenaean) cultures define the Bronze Age (BA) of Greece. Urbanism, complex social structures, craft and agricultural specialization, and the earliest forms of writing, characterize this iconic period. We sequenced six early to middle BA whole genomes, along with 11 mtDNA genomes, sampled from the three BA cultures of the Aegean Sea. The Early BA (EBA) genomes are homogeneous and derive most of their ancestry from Neolithic Aegeans, contrary to earlier hypotheses that the Neolithic-EBA cultural transition was due to massive population turn-over. EBA Aegeans were shaped by relatively small-scale migration from East of the Aegean, as evidenced by the Caucasus-related ancestry also detected in Anatolians. In contrast, Middle BA (MBA) individuals of northern Greece differ from EBA populations in showing ~50% Pontic-Caspian Steppe-related ancestry, dated at ca. 2,600-2,000 BCE. Such gene flow events during the MBA contributed towards shaping present-day Greek genomes.

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