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Thread: Genetic Genealogy & Ancient DNA in the News (DISCUSSION ONLY)

  1. #4891
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    Quote Originally Posted by etrusco View Post
    https://www.ebi.ac.uk/ena/browser/view/PRJEB42866

    The origin and legacy of the Etruscans through a 2,000-year archeogenomic time transect

    Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History

    The origin, development and legacy of the enigmatic Etruscan civilization from the central region of the Italian peninsula known as Etruria has been the subject of scholarly debate for centuries. Here we report a genomic time transect of 82 individuals spanning almost two millennia (800 BCE – 1,000 CE) across Etruria and southern Italy. During the Iron Age, we detect a component of Indo-European-associated steppe ancestry and the lack of recent Anatolian admixture among the putative non-Indo-European-speaking Etruscans. Despite comprising diverse individuals of central European, northern African and Near Eastern ancestry, the local gene pool is largely maintained across the first millennium BCE. This continuity drastically changes during the Roman Imperial period where we report an abrupt population-wide shift to ~50% admixture with eastern Mediterranean ancestry. Finally, we identify northern European components appearing in central Italy during the Early Middle Ages, which thus formed the genetic landscape of present-day Italian populations.
    I can't wait to read this. Though I'm not really sure why Anatolia farmer ancestry.is not considered "East Meditteranean" judging that it came from Asia minor/ the East Mediterranean.

  2. #4892
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    Quote Originally Posted by Arch Hades View Post
    I can't wait to read this. Though I'm not really sure why Anatolia farmer ancestry.is not considered "East Meditteranean" judging that it came from Asia minor/ the East Mediterranean.
    Well, no term is perfectly applicable to all periods. At one point Scandinavian ancestry would have meant SHG.

    By East Med they're talking about an ancestry profile that formed in the East Med region in post-Neolithic times and went on to be characteristic of many populations living there today (like Aegeans and Cypriots).
    Ελευθερία ή θάνατος.

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  4. #4893
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    Quote Originally Posted by pmokeefe View Post
    Significant (Z|−4|) admixture signal with a source from ancient Wusun observed in contemporary Bulgarians
    Svetoslav Stamov
    Abstract
    We report the presence of significant Central Asian ancestry in both contemporary Bulgarians and in early medieval population from SMC (Saltovo Mayaky Culture).

    The existence of Chalcolithic-Iran (Hajj-Fruz) and Wusun related ancestral component in contemporary Bulgarians comes as a surprise and sheds light on both migration route and ethnic origins of Proto-Bulgarians. We interpret these results as an evidence for a Central –Asian connection for the tribes, constituting the population of SMC and Kubrat’s Old Great Bulgaria in Pontic steppe from 6th-7th century AD.

    We identify Central Asian Wusun tribes as carriers of this component on the base from the results from f3 and f4 statistics. We suggest that Wusun-related tribes must have played role (or might have even been the backbone) in what became known as the Hunnic migration to Europe during 3rd-5th century AD. Same population must have taken part in the formation of the SMC (Saltovo-Mayaki Culture) and Great Old Bulgarian during 6th-9th century AD in Pontic – Caspian steppe.

    We also explore the genomic origins of Thracians and their relations to contemporary Europeans. We conclude that contemporary Bulgarians do not harbor Thracian-specific ancestry, since ancient Thracian samples share more SNPs with contemporary Greeks and even contemporary Icelanders than with contemporary Bulgarians.
    I knew this guy was going to claim that the Bulgars were Iranic, but a very ballsy move to go for the Wusun here lol.

    All joking aside, is actually quite messed up how often ancient genetics is used for nationalistic driven theories by academics, often funded or in co-operation with some of the biggest labs in the game. This Iranic Bulgar theory is blatant Anti-Turkism and they got 5 million from Harvard to run these samples

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  6. #4894
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    Quote Originally Posted by CopperAxe View Post
    I knew this guy was going to claim that the Bulgars were Iranic, but a very ballsy move to go for the Wusun here lol.

    All joking aside, is actually quite messed up how often ancient genetics is used for nationalistic driven theories by academics, often funded or in co-operation with some of the biggest labs in the game. This Iranic Bulgar theory is blatant Anti-Turkism and they got 5 million from Harvard to run these samples
    which for me is also speculative that the Bulgarians have no inheritance from the Thracians and that even more in my opinion than from Proto-Bulgarians (Turkic Steppe) and of course most of it is connected with Slavic migration and Ethnogesis ! clearly Proto-Bulgarians have a genetic share of Indo-Iranians ( Sarmatians…) however you should be viewed as Turkish speakers and as you mentioned you can see politics trying to twist facts, which is just plain annoying and sad.
    Last edited by Alain; 06-11-2021 at 03:26 AM.
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    Kivutkalns_153_Latvia_BA 22
    DA112_Hallstatt-Bylany_800BC 19
    DA191_Hungary_Scythian 12
    IA_Wielbark_Mas_5_PL 11
    BA_Hungary_RISE254 7
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    LBA_Lithuania_RISE598 7
    IA_Britain_York_6DRIF22 6
    IA_EastKazachstan_Is2 6
    CHL_Iran_I1670 2

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  8. #4895
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    I mean it would be no surprise if there was an Iranian influence in culture and language. The Seljuk Turks admired the Persian culture and adapted a lot of it. Even today we have many Persian words in the Turkish language. Last but not least I share the same view like you and highly disagree with that paper. It is just used for nationalistic and useless propaganda. There seem to be a whole bunch of them who desperately try to connect the proto Bulgarians with Iranic people.

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  10. #4896
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    Quote Originally Posted by CopperAxe View Post
    I knew this guy was going to claim that the Bulgars were Iranic, but a very ballsy move to go for the Wusun here lol.

    All joking aside, is actually quite messed up how often ancient genetics is used for nationalistic driven theories by academics, often funded or in co-operation with some of the biggest labs in the game. This Iranic Bulgar theory is blatant Anti-Turkism and they got 5 million from Harvard to run these samples
    If i am reading it right he is even claiming Bulgarians have more ancestry from Wusun than from Slavs. It would make sense if they found some low Alan/Sarmatian admixture (I even doubt it is detectable) but what have Wusun (often like a super Steppe-shifted version of Pamiri) to do with either modern or medieval Bulgarians ?

    Very surprisingly, in our test Wusun samples outcompeted early Slav
    samples from Central Europe we had available. While results confirm ancestral
    contribution from Early Slavs, the evidence for Wusun admixture seem more
    convincing
    (Z-score |-5.1| versus Z-scores |-1.03|.

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  12. #4897
    The Bulgaroids were Chinese?
    A wise man once said... tandaramandara

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  14. #4898
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    Quote Originally Posted by KolanGoyimski View Post
    The Bulgaroids were Chinese?
    Yes, very twisted study claiming that even the Slavs had Wusun admixture before spreading to the Balkans. However there are no new samples, they are based on 137 genomes and Thracian_IA. This may not be the conclusion of the Harvard lab when the new samples are tested, which will include Thracians from the Classic period and more or less proven Bulgars.

  15. #4899
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    Man I cant wait until people are going to unnecessarily link the Wusun to the Turkic peoples based on the parallels between the Ashina/Asena founding myth and the tale of Liejaomi and this new "extremely insightful" aDNA article which shows that the Bulgars had tons of Wusun ancestry...
    Last edited by CopperAxe; 06-11-2021 at 12:37 PM.

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  17. #4900
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    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    ISBA9 - Genetic Continuity in Central Asia, Perle Guarino-Vignon (no other resolution)

    Attachment 44930
    Unfortunately lot of this is old wine in a new bottle, that TKM IA sample is almost 3 years old now and David ran the sample few years ago, with pretty much the same findings.


    The fact they only have 4 measly samples from the IA , is pathetic. A better approach would been to have at least 15-20 samples across different sites to have a more comprehensive paper. Save for these 4 samples it really is a big nothing burger. A laser focus on LBA/IA sites in southern Central Asia should be the aim now instead of barrage of Saka papers we have seen over the past few years.
    Last edited by pegasus; 06-12-2021 at 08:28 AM.

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