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Thread: Genetic Genealogy & Ancient DNA in the News (DISCUSSION ONLY)

  1. #2511
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    Quote Originally Posted by rozenfeld View Post
    Reagrding kurgans: Russian language actually has native word for kurgans, but it was mostly replaced by the Turkic borrowing "kurgan". The native Russian word is сопка/sopka, but now its meaning has shifted and it mostly denotes large hills and volcanoes: https://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/%D1%8...BF%D0%BA%D0%B0
    Yes, it's an asinine argument.

    If Russian archaeologists happened to use a term derived from the Germanic bergh, Latin mons or Avestan barez, Mr. Snow's source would have to be consistent in their fallacious reasoning and infer that the original kurgan bearers were exclusively Germanic, Italic or Iranic-speaking (which, in keeping with the Turkic assertion, is dissonant with the linguistic data).

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  3. #2512
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    Well, the Snow melt is long overdue. Phew!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chad Rohlfsen View Post
    Supposedly, another in Turkey with 12,000 samples from every region for 12,000 years.

    https://t.co/eBmWV29GP2
    Fantastic, but how long ?

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    Quote Originally Posted by DMXX View Post
    Yes, it's an asinine argument.

    If Russian archaeologists happened to use a term derived from the Germanic bergh, Latin mons or Avestan barez, Mr. Snow's source would have to be consistent in their fallacious reasoning and infer that the original kurgan bearers were exclusively Germanic, Italic or Iranic-speaking (which, in keeping with the Turkic assertion, is dissonant with the linguistic data).
    It would be akin to claiming that Western Europe's pre-Beaker inhabitants were Celts because we use Celtic words like "dolmen" and "cromlech" to describe megalithic structures. Completely spurious argument.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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    Quote Originally Posted by Agamemnon View Post
    It would be akin to claiming that Western Europe's pre-Beaker inhabitants were Celts because we use Celtic words like "dolmen" and "cromlech" to describe megalithic structures. Completely spurious argument.
    The only remarkable thing about contrived arguments like these is that they circulate back around like the common cold.

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    So it seems that the Premyslid dynasty was R1b1a2a1a2c1b1b1a3a1 (which is apparently under "Insular Celtic" R1b-L21 ):

    https://ct24.ceskatelevize.cz/domaci...hi_XZ90dfjjrEQ

    ^^^ Screenshot from the video which can be found in the link above:



    ^^^ Is it this subclade or not?: https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-S5982/

    TMRCA of this purported Premyslid subclade is ca. 1850 years before present according to YFull, already in the Common Era?

    =====

    I guess it goes to show the Celtic link between Bohemia and Britain.
    Last edited by Tomenable; 06-05-2019 at 05:38 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    ^^^ Is it this subclade or not?: https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-S5982/
    ^^^
    There is one sample of this subclade from North Jutland (sample id YF12824, Nordjylland). Could it be from the Cimbri?:

    https://historum.com/threads/cimbri-...id-faux.63133/

    http://www.davidkfaux.org/Cimbri-Chronology.pdf

    http://www.davidkfaux.org/files/Belg...ain_R-U152.pdf

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    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    So it seems that the Premyslid dynasty was R1b1a2a1a2c1b1b1a3a1 (which is apparently under "Insular Celtic" R1b-L21 ):

    https://ct24.ceskatelevize.cz/domaci...hi_XZ90dfjjrEQ

    ^^^ Screenshot from the video which can be found in the link above:



    ^^^ Is it this subclade or not?: https://www.yfull.com/tree/R-S5982/

    TMRCA of this purported Premyslid subclade is ca. 1850 years before present according to YFull, already in the Common Era?

    =====

    I guess it goes to show the Celtic link between Bohemia and Britain.
    I'm not negating any of this, but shouldn't we be cautious when they note that they had low Y-chromosome mapping and rather broad calls like HIJK for some other samples?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tomenable View Post
    ^^^
    There is one sample of this subclade from North Jutland (sample id YF12824, Nordjylland). Could it be from the Cimbri?:

    https://historum.com/threads/cimbri-...id-faux.63133/

    http://www.davidkfaux.org/Cimbri-Chronology.pdf

    http://www.davidkfaux.org/files/Belg...ain_R-U152.pdf
    I'm not totally sold on Faux's claim that the Cimbri were Celtic. We know that Germanic people were influenced by Celtic elements, and this extends fairly far back given the proto-Celtic loanwords (like *rīxs) I found in proto-Germanic (*rīks). But we also find later Germanic chieftains with seemingly Celtic names like Maroboduus (māro- "great", bodwos "raven"), Ballomar (ballo- "limb", māro "great"), and these aren't the only names with potential for a Celtic origin. I think Celtic culture had a strong influence on early Germanic groups, and there was definitely a blurring going on especially in the border zones later on.

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    Quote Originally Posted by spruithean View Post
    I'm not negating any of this, but shouldn't we be cautious when they note that they had low Y-chromosome mapping and rather broad calls like HIJK for some other samples?



    I'm not totally sold on Faux's claim that the Cimbri were Celtic. We know that Germanic people were influenced by Celtic elements, and this extends fairly far back given the proto-Celtic loanwords (like *rīxs) I found in proto-Germanic (*rīks). But we also find later Germanic chieftains with seemingly Celtic names like Maroboduus (māro- "great", bodwos "raven"), Ballomar (ballo- "limb", māro "great"), and these aren't the only names with potential for a Celtic origin. I think Celtic culture had a strong influence on early Germanic groups, and there was definitely a blurring going on especially in the border zones later on.
    Also, if Celts were so far north, why did proto-Germanics name Celts "Walhaz" after the Volcae?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walhaz

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  19. #2520
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    Quote Originally Posted by epoch View Post
    Also, if Celts were so far north, why did proto-Germanics name Celts "Walhaz" after the Volcae?

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walhaz
    Not a difficult problem really because when the term Volcae was used Cimbri and Teutoni were already gone.
    Also I don't think that peoples that in order conquered eastern England, sacked and destroyed Rome, stormed the greek world, conquered a good chunck of Anatolia, invaded the balkans and reached southern poland and conquered a fair bit of western Ukraine ( we have La Tene findings all over Romania, Moldova and the pontic steppe) had much difficulty in invading southern scandinavia which was just a stone thrown away from their core territory. Also if like spruthean said they had a very big role in the building up of the germanic ethnogenesis is fair to assume that they were not only neighbor but reached also some core germanic territory. Jutland perfectly fits the bill in this case.

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