Page 241 of 404 FirstFirst ... 141191231239240241242243251291341 ... LastLast
Results 2,401 to 2,410 of 4039

Thread: Genetic Genealogy & Ancient DNA in the News (DISCUSSION ONLY)

  1. #2401
    Banned
    Posts
    188
    Sex
    Nationality
    Canadian
    Y-DNA (P)
    N-L1025

    Canada Germany Finland United Kingdom
    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    I think all forest steppe and forest region, pre Iron age, from the Baltics to the Urals and even further east may not show any Y-N either. It will be mainly R1a1 with some Q.
    If so, that would leave only Siberia as the contact zone possibility.

    Lets's see as more data comes in.
    The Tarand graves likely have their origin in the Netted Ware decended cultures of western Russia. Netted Ware in turn has its origin in the HG Volga-Kama forest steppe Volosovo/Garino-Bor cultures. Netted Ware formed after IE influences (Eastern CW/Abashevo).

    I can not be sure we will find N1c in Volosovo or Garino-Bor however I do not know the alternative. CWC=Uralic with N1c coming from Circum-Polar Siberians who infiltrated Uralic tribes? A Seima-Turbino migration from the Altai forming an elite in the Volga region?

  2. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to MikkaK For This Useful Post:

     Hando (05-11-2019),  parasar (05-10-2019),  parastais (05-13-2019)

  3. #2402
    Registered Users
    Posts
    33
    Sex
    Omitted

    Seriously not sure why people are relying on genetics to place the Uralic homeland in Siberia of all places. David Anthony summarizes the homeland of the Uralic languages in his Magnum Opus, the horse wheel language book. As the Uralic languages had an influence on PIE, it's clear the homeland should be located in Europe just north of the PIE homeland.

    [Quote]By far the strongest linkages can be seen with Uralic. The Uralic languages
    are spoken today in northern Europe and Siberia, with one southern off-
    shoot, Magyar, in Hungary, which was conquered by Magyar-speaking
    invaders in the tenth century. Uralic, like Indo-European, is a broad lan-
    guage family; its daughter languages are spoken across the northern for-
    ests of Eurasia from the Pacific shores of northeastern Siberia (Nganasan,
    spoken by tundra reindeer herders) to the Atlantic and Baltic coasts (Finn-
    ish, Estonian, Saami, Karelian, Vepsian, and Votian). Most linguists di-
    vide the family at the root into two super-branches, Finno-Ugric (the
    western branch) and Samoyedic (the eastern), although Salminen has ar-
    gued that this binary division is based more on tradition than on solid
    linguistic evidence. His alternative is a "flat" division of the language fam-
    ily into nine branches, with Samoyedic just one of the nine. 12

    The homeland of Proto-Uralic probably was in the forest zone centered
    on the southern flanks of the Ural Mountains. Many argue for a homeland
    west of the Urals and others argue for the east side, but almost all Uralic
    linguists and Ural-region archaeologists would agree that Proto-Uralic
    was spoken somewhere in the birch-pine forests between the Oka River
    on the west (around modern Gorky) and the Irtysh River on the east
    (around modern Omsk).[\quote]

    David Anthony correctly points out that the sharing between the languages is at the proto level so the homelands of PIE and Uralic would have been next to each other. Trying to place the Uralic homeland in Siberia (I mean come on) is exactly the type of post modern neo Marxist garbage great thinkers like Jordan Peterson warned us about. Next they will try to say the steppe theory is untenable when it has already been proven through the combination of linguistics and archaeology. This Siberian admixture could represent anything (slaves, immigrants laborers, slaves, etc). It would be like someone analyzing the DNA of modern day England and finding DNA that matches those in modern day Poland. The researchers would then conclude that the English language came from Poland while not knowing the polish DNA from the United Kingdom represents plumbers, menial help, cleaners, etc. While it's acceptable for these eggheads to crunch the numbers on the DNA, analyzing origins of language should be left to the experts (e.g. linguists and archaeologists).

  4. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to IrishKing For This Useful Post:

     Hando (05-14-2019),  palamede (05-13-2019)

  5. #2403
    Registered Users
    Posts
    902
    Sex
    Location
    סוף מערב
    Ethnicity
    Western Jewish
    Nationality
    USA
    Y-DNA (P)
    E-Y6938*
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c7a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-Y2619
    mtDNA (P)
    H7e

    [QUOTE=IrishKing;568026]Seriously not sure why people are relying on genetics to place the Uralic homeland in Siberia of all places. David Anthony summarizes the homeland of the Uralic languages in his Magnum Opus, the horse wheel language book. As the Uralic languages had an influence on PIE, it's clear the homeland should be located in Europe just north of the PIE homeland.

    By far the strongest linkages can be seen with Uralic. The Uralic languages
    are spoken today in northern Europe and Siberia, with one southern off-
    shoot, Magyar, in Hungary, which was conquered by Magyar-speaking
    invaders in the tenth century. Uralic, like Indo-European, is a broad lan-
    guage family; its daughter languages are spoken across the northern for-
    ests of Eurasia from the Pacific shores of northeastern Siberia (Nganasan,
    spoken by tundra reindeer herders) to the Atlantic and Baltic coasts (Finn-
    ish, Estonian, Saami, Karelian, Vepsian, and Votian). Most linguists di-
    vide the family at the root into two super-branches, Finno-Ugric (the
    western branch) and Samoyedic (the eastern), although Salminen has ar-
    gued that this binary division is based more on tradition than on solid
    linguistic evidence. His alternative is a "flat" division of the language fam-
    ily into nine branches, with Samoyedic just one of the nine. 12

    The homeland of Proto-Uralic probably was in the forest zone centered
    on the southern flanks of the Ural Mountains. Many argue for a homeland
    west of the Urals and others argue for the east side, but almost all Uralic
    linguists and Ural-region archaeologists would agree that Proto-Uralic
    was spoken somewhere in the birch-pine forests between the Oka River
    on the west (around modern Gorky) and the Irtysh River on the east
    (around modern Omsk).[\quote]

    David Anthony correctly points out that the sharing between the languages is at the proto level so the homelands of PIE and Uralic would have been next to each other. Trying to place the Uralic homeland in Siberia (I mean come on) is exactly the type of post modern neo Marxist garbage great thinkers like Jordan Peterson warned us about. Next they will try to say the steppe theory is untenable when it has already been proven through the combination of linguistics and archaeology. This Siberian admixture could represent anything (slaves, immigrants laborers, slaves, etc). It would be like someone analyzing the DNA of modern day England and finding DNA that matches those in modern day Poland. The researchers would then conclude that the English language came from Poland while not knowing the polish DNA from the United Kingdom represents plumbers, menial help, cleaners, etc. While it's acceptable for these eggheads to crunch the numbers on the DNA, analyzing origins of language should be left to the experts (e.g. linguists and archaeologists).
    Can we not make this about Jordan Peterson?

  6. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to hartaisarlag For This Useful Post:

     Michalis Moriopoulos (05-14-2019),  Ryukendo (05-13-2019)

  7. #2404
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,612
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishKing View Post
    Seriously not sure why people are relying on genetics to place the Uralic homeland in Siberia of all places.
    No one's claiming that the Uralic homeland was in Siberia. You're misinterpreting the Saag paper and the discussions about it.

  8. The Following 4 Users Say Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:

     Hando (05-14-2019),  JMcB (05-13-2019),  Michalis Moriopoulos (05-14-2019),  Psynome (05-15-2019)

  9. #2405
    Registered Users
    Posts
    278
    Sex
    Y-DNA (P)
    N1c1 CTS 12908
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    Finland
    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    No one's claiming that the Uralic homeland was in Siberia. You're misinterpreting the Saag paper and the discussions about it.
    I actually wouldn't be very surprised if Pre Proto Uralic was a West Siberian language spoken by N1c-rich, at least partly WSHG-based groups. Proto Uralic then was spoken in Seima Turbino influenced centres, such as in Seima by Oka river (later West Uralic speakers such as Baltic Finns, Mordva and Saami) and Turbino by Kama river (later Permic speakers etc. such as Komi and Udmurt), west of Ural mountains and in lively interaction also with Abashevo based groups. Sintasha_o type of samples might very well be an outcome of that.

  10. The Following 6 Users Say Thank You to Huck Finn For This Useful Post:

     Hando (05-14-2019),  hartaisarlag (05-13-2019),  IrishKing (05-13-2019),  parasar (05-13-2019),  Pessipeikko (05-13-2019),  Psynome (05-15-2019)

  11. #2406
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    7,874

    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    No one's claiming that the Uralic homeland was in Siberia. You're misinterpreting the Saag paper and the discussions about it.
    They could perhaps have entitled their paper better.

    "The Arrival of Siberian Ancestry Connecting the Eastern Baltic to Uralic Speakers further East"

  12. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to parasar For This Useful Post:

     Hando (05-14-2019),  IrishKing (05-13-2019)

  13. #2407
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    7,874

    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    They could perhaps have entitled their paper better.

    "The Arrival of Siberian Ancestry Connecting the Eastern Baltic to Uralic Speakers further East"
    https://pure.mpg.de/rest/items/item_...014200/content

    "Here we analyse ancient genomic data from 11 individuals from Finland and north-western Russia. We show that the genetic makeup of northern Europe was shaped by migrations from Siberia that began at least 3500 years ago. This Siberian ancestry was subsequently admixed into many modern populations in the region, particularly into populations speaking Uralic languages today ...
    Haplogroup N1c, to which this haplotype belongs, is the major Y-chromosomal lineage in modern north-east Europe and European Russia. It is especially prevalent in Uralic speakers, comprising for example as much as 54% of eastern Finnish male lineages today36. Notably, this is the earliest known occurrence of Y-haplogroup N1c in Fennoscandia."

  14. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to parasar For This Useful Post:

     Hando (05-18-2019),  jdean (05-13-2019),  JMcB (05-14-2019),  razyn (05-13-2019),  Saetro (05-13-2019)

  15. #2408
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,612
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    They could perhaps have entitled their paper better.

    "The Arrival of Siberian Ancestry Connecting the Eastern Baltic to Uralic Speakers further East"
    It reflects the angle they've taken in the paper. They're using ancestry that is ultimately from Siberia as a marker of the Uralic expansion deep into Europe from far Eastern Europe, because the presence of this type of ancestry in European Uralic speakers exposes the genetic relationship between them and Siberian Uralic speakers. Why was this type of ancestry present in the Uralic homeland in far Eastern Europe? Probably because it's right next door to western Siberia.

    IrishPeasant doesn't get this, because he's just not very good at any of this.

    He also doesn't understand that among the most eastern shifted and Siberian-related samples from Iron Age Estonia are those buried in relatively elaborate tarand "house of death" graves, which were clearly erected for the burial of elites.

  16. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:

     Camulogène Rix (05-14-2019),  JMcB (05-14-2019),  Michalis Moriopoulos (05-14-2019)

  17. #2409
    Registered Users
    Posts
    33
    Sex
    Omitted

    Quote Originally Posted by Generalissimo View Post
    It reflects the angle they've taken in the paper. They're using ancestry that is ultimately from Siberia as a marker of the Uralic expansion deep into Europe from far Eastern Europe, because the presence of this type of ancestry in European Uralic speakers exposes the genetic relationship between them and Siberian Uralic speakers.
    What does this mean ? What are you leftists trying to say?? Be clear!!
    Last edited by IrishKing; 05-14-2019 at 01:45 AM.

  18. The Following User Says Thank You to IrishKing For This Useful Post:

     Hando (05-18-2019)

  19. #2410
    Registered Users
    Posts
    4,612
    Sex

    Quote Originally Posted by IrishKing View Post
    What does this mean ? What are you leftists trying to say?? Be clear!!
    Is English your first language or do you speak Primitive Irish at home?

  20. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Generalissimo For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (08-04-2019),  JMcB (05-14-2019),  Michalis Moriopoulos (05-14-2019)

Page 241 of 404 FirstFirst ... 141191231239240241242243251291341 ... LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Genetic Genealogy & Ancient DNA in the News (TITLES/ABSTRACTS ONLY)
    By History-of-Things in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 3025
    Last Post: 11-24-2020, 09:09 AM
  2. R2 - Ancient DNA Discussion
    By Tomasso29 in forum R2-M479
    Replies: 7
    Last Post: 06-05-2020, 02:06 PM
  3. Ancient Celtic Y dna discussion
    By Principe in forum Ancient (aDNA)
    Replies: 39
    Last Post: 10-15-2018, 01:27 PM
  4. Replies: 47
    Last Post: 09-15-2015, 09:09 PM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •