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Thread: Genetic Genealogy & Ancient DNA in the News (DISCUSSION ONLY)

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    Quote Originally Posted by artemv View Post
    This is under a paywall. Is this article aviable for free?


    If you write to them perhaps they can help you.
    To whom correspondence may be addressed. Email: [email protected], [email protected], or [email protected].

    I am a subscriber to PNAS, if you have a specific question about the article, I can look that up for you. But because of copyright and the policies of this board, I cannot post the full article.
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemv View Post
    This is under a paywall. Is this article aviable for free?
    The article is free, but link to pdf is easy to miss:

    fewf.PNG

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    Quote Originally Posted by Pribislav View Post
    The article is free, but link to pdf is easy to miss:

    fewf.PNG
    Pressed the link, but did not get the pdf.

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    Torgashev's article "Tatarinova i khazary" -> correct translation is -> Torgashev's article "Tatarinova and the Khazars"

    But in general translation bot made a good job.

    The only un-Turkic-like sample appears to have an Arabian origin.
    Could it happen that they mix Arabic and Jewish origin?

    Quote Originally Posted by Erikl86 View Post
    RIP Khazar hypothesis of Ashkenazi ancestry 1800s-2019.
    You cannot kill a conspiracy theory just with pure facts.
    Genetic data of modern Ashkenazim is known for a long time already, and those who want to know the truth could see even before the article that there is no East Asian admixture in Askenazi Jews. Those who want to believe in Khazar theory will continue doing so.

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  9. #2605
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemv View Post
    You cannot kill a conspiracy theory just with pure facts.
    Genetic data of modern Ashkenazim is known for a long time already, and those who want to know the truth could see even before the article that there is no East Asian admixture in Askenazi Jews. Those who want to believe in Khazar theory will continue doing so.
    Of course it won't be killed, but since we no longer need to guess who are good modern proxies (for example, Armenians or Georgians according to Elhaik et al.) for Khazars, but have actual DNA of 9 ruling class members of the Khazars (which even among the Khazar minimalists, at least the royal elite converted to Judaism), then this "theory" or "hypothesis" has no shred of any, even remote, scientific credibility any longer. We some times take it for granted, because it's obvious for all of us that Ashkenazi Jews are East Mediterranean population, but every now and then, you see models with Armenians, or Adygie, or what not, then some one claiming its from Khazars.

    Not anymore. With these aDNA samples, even if some Jews did live among Khazars, most of them weren't ethnically Khazars.
    Check out my Hidden Content

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    Quote Originally Posted by pmokeefe View Post
    If you write to them perhaps they can help you.
    To whom correspondence may be addressed. Email: [email protected], [email protected], or [email protected].

    I am a subscriber to PNAS, if you have a specific question about the article, I can look that up for you. But because of copyright and the policies of this board, I cannot post the full article.
    How do these samples compare with the other samples? Is there a PCA?
    How inbred were they?

    Well done Paabo!
    Image “Westray wifie” replica of Neolithic figurine Hidden Content
    Out of 64 pre 1800 births 45% Cheshire, 1% Irish (or Scottish), 25% south Derbyshire, 13% Burton on Trent area (where 4 counties within 10 miles), 7% Shropshire, 1% Staffs, 8% Lancs. So far all British Isles despite what some testing companies say.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Judith View Post
    How do these samples compare with the other samples? Is there a PCA?
    How inbred were they?

    Well done Paabo!
    A genetic analysis of the Gibraltar Neanderthals (main PNAS page for the article)

    It looks like that some of your questions might be answered by clicking on the "Figures & SI" tab on the article's PNAS page. You will find the tables and figures there as well as a link to the appendix which has a lot of supporting details
    https://www.pnas.org/content/pnas/su...84116.sapp.pdf

    The Figures and SI did not seem to be behind their paywall, I logged out of PNAS and could still get them but not the main article. If you are unable to do that, or if you still have questions about the main article, please let me know.

    I did not notice a principal component analysis anywhere, sorry.
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemv View Post
    You cannot kill a conspiracy theory just with pure facts.
    Genetic data of modern Ashkenazim is known for a long time already, and those who want to know the truth could see even before the article that there is no East Asian admixture in Askenazi Jews. Those who want to believe in Khazar theory will continue doing so.
    Very much agree with you here. The data was already available well over a decade ago, anyone with a modicum of curiosity could easily refute it. Never prevented the Khazar myth from spreading like wildfire. And let's also not make the mistake of believing that the people who insist on promoting antisemitic narratives can be reasoned with (intellectual dishonesty is a huge factor here).

    When (and if) the refutation of this myth becomes common knowledge as the discoveries trickle down to a larger audience, the narrative might well shift from Ashkenazi Jews being Mongoloid nomads from the Pontic-Caspian steppe to a bunch of Greeks who converted en masse to Judaism (which is admittedly harder to disprove as this presupposes some sort of familiarity with the genetic data). In the end, the objective is the same, namely to portray Jews as impostors with no ties whatsoever to their ancient namesake (which in their minds will help deligitimise the state of Israel).

    The Jew as an impostor is an extremely old anti-Jewish trope. In our grandparents' generation it essentially consisted in shunning Jews as quintessential foreigners passing themselves off as Europeans and who should therefore not enjoy any rights, the objective back then was mainly to fight against the emancipation of Jews (this is still the standard narrative amongst White Nationalists). Nowadays, with the success of political Zionism, it has cloaked itself in normative intersectional righteousness by portraying Jews as White European colonisers with no biological ties whatsoever to the ancient Israelites oppressing the native Palestinians (by extension, that makes Jews the real antisemites according to this warped view of things). The malleability of this ancient antisemitic obsession is quite remarkable. As the French say, plus ça change, plus c'est la même chose.
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 07-20-2019 at 12:43 AM.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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    I mean, I don't think the mainstream who's relevant to the study of ancestry of Euro Jews accepts the Khazar theory? It's treated as fringe. For the Hitler Did Nothing Wrong and Anti-Israel crowds.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Adules View Post
    I mean, I don't think the mainstream who's relevant to the study of ancestry of Euro Jews accepts the Khazar theory? It's treated as fringe. For the Hitler Did Nothing Wrong and Anti-Israel crowds.
    I think in some societies/regions, it might be the standard narrative, but in the West it's definitely fringe. If you ask a random American or European who the Khazars were, you will get blank stares. If you ask them what's an Ashkenazi Jew, most probably won't even know.

    But many will also probably believe that Jews are just converts from wherever they lived, which is a logical assumption if you don't know anything about Jewish history.

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