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Thread: Genetic Genealogy & Ancient DNA in the News (DISCUSSION ONLY)

  1. #2611
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    Quote Originally Posted by artemv View Post
    Torgashev's article "Tatarinova i khazary" -> correct translation is -> Torgashev's article "Tatarinova and the Khazars"

    But in general translation bot made a good job.


    Could it happen that they mix Arabic and Jewish origin?


    You cannot kill a conspiracy theory just with pure facts.
    Genetic data of modern Ashkenazim is known for a long time already, and those who want to know the truth could see even before the article that there is no East Asian admixture in Askenazi Jews. Those who want to believe in Khazar theory will continue doing so.
    I haven't followed the thread, but has anyone yet quoted her pwnage of Elhaik?

    Статья про хазар мне запомнилась, но все время грыз червь, что доказательство неверное, такого типа логика: если мы решим, что бабушка — это дедушка, то тогда у бабушки есть яйца…
    She says that what Elhaik did is analogous to using his grandpa as a proxy for his grandma and deducing that she has a pair.(edited for language)
    Last edited by StillWater; 07-20-2019 at 06:35 AM.

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  3. #2612
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    Quote Originally Posted by Adules View Post
    I mean, I don't think the mainstream who's relevant to the study of ancestry of Euro Jews accepts the Khazar theory? It's treated as fringe. For the Hitler Did Nothing Wrong and Anti-Israel crowds.
    Even the majority of them don't buy it.

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    Not really related to anything in the news, but there's no active thread on related topics right now...
    Just ran some d-stats in the form Ust_Ishim X Onge.DG Papuan.DG/Australian.DG and turned out some interesting results.

    For Sunghir, Gravettians, Kostenki14, GoyetQ116-1, WHG-EHG, Barcin_N, Iran_N, CHG, Taforalt, MA1, Yana, and Tianyuan, the z-scores are all negligible (strongest was Ust_Ishim EHG Onge.DG Papuan.DG at -1.81).
    For East-Asians on the other hand (Ami, Dai, Han, Baikal_EN, Devils_Gate_N), the z-score consistently straddles significance in favor of Onge.

    So to resolve the differential relationship between East-Asians, Onge, and Oceanians, I think these are all the basic possibilities.
    1) Onge and East-Asians form a clade to the exclusion of Oceanians.
    2) Onge-related flow into East-Asians.
    3) East-Asian-related flow into Onge.
    4) Input from outside the Onge/East-Asian clade into Oceanians.

    To address each...
    1) This is probably the simplest explanation, but once Tianyuan is thrown in it gets kind of screwy. Why is Tianyuan more related to East-Asians and why are Onge more related to East-Asians than Tianyuan?
    2) Onge and Hoabhinian may form a weak clade. Jomon, XiongNu, and ancient Nepalese samples have no preference to either Onge or Hoabhinian.
    If a generalized Onge-like component contributed to East-Asians, it would probably have to constitute most of their ancestry. This could leave room for Tianyuan to constitute the small remaining portion.
    3) The minimum East-Asian input into Onge I estimate to be 25% if this is the correct option. Tianyuan if considered an early East-Asian, may simply form too weak a clade to display the same affinity to Onge that East-Asians do.
    4) D: Ust_Ishim Tianyuan Onge.DG Papuan.DG/Australian.DG = ~0 would suggest this isn't the case. It is possible, however option 2 or 3 (or something more complex) would still be necessary.

    And just for kicks, how this relates to ANE...
    Relative to Onge, East-Asians have an insignificant but consistent excess of affinity to West Eurasians. This actually reaches significance in the case of AG3 and EHG (but crucially less so in proto-ANE MA1 and barely ANE Yana).
    The simplest explanation I think here is a ~5% contribution of ANE to modern East-Asians. If this is correct and controlled for, then ANE is equally related to Onge and East-Asians' remaining ancestry.
    As noted earlier, MA1 and Yana do not have a significant preference for Onge over Oceanians.
    But considering only ~30% of ANE is East-Eurasian, if the value's are extrapolated to a hypothetical 100%, then it would reach significance, but this is of course speculative and not statistically sound.
    For more kicks though, if we assume that's the case, Tianyuan would not account for that, so only East-Asian proper (or the Onge-like population that contributed to East-Asians) would be responsible.
    Last edited by Kale; 07-22-2019 at 04:26 AM.
    Collection of 14,000 d-stats: Hidden Content Part 2: Hidden Content Part 3: Hidden Content PM me for d-stats, qpadm, qpgraph, or f3-outgroup nmonte models.

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  6. #2614
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    Apparently more Romans on the way : )

    Pompeii row erupts between rival scientific factions

    DNA profiles of the Vesuvius’s victims are giving new insights into the ethnic diversity of Roman Pompeii. Samples are being taken of 2,000 sample remains of food, and medical scans will provide a picture of the community’s health.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jdean View Post
    Apparently more Romans on the way : )
    Sounds more like partly digested Roman Banquets.

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    Note: this study doesn't contain newly sequenced ancient DNA:

    Quote Originally Posted by rozenfeld View Post
    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1101/712497v1

    The Genetic History of France


    View ORCID ProfileAude SAINT PIERRE, Joanna Giemza, Mathilde Karakachoff, Isabel Alves, Philippe Amouyel, Jean-Francois Dartigues, Christophe Tzourio, Martial Monteil, Pilar Galan, Serge Hercberg, Richard Redon, Emmanuelle Genin, Christian Dina

    doi: https://doi.org/10.1101/712497

    Abstract

    The study of the genetic structure of different countries within Europe has provided significant insights into their demographic history and their actual stratification. Although France occupies a particular location at the end of the European peninsula and at the crossroads of migration routes, few population genetic studies have been conducted so far with genome-wide data. In this study, we analyzed SNP-chip genetic data from 2 184 individuals born in France who were enrolled in two independent population cohorts. Using FineStructure, six different genetic clusters of individuals were found that were very consistent between the two cohorts. These clusters match extremely well the geography and overlap with historical and linguistic divisions of France. By modeling the relationship between genetics and geography using EEMS software, we were able to detect gene flow barriers that are similar in the two cohorts and corresponds to major French rivers or mountains. Estimations of effective population sizes using IBDNe program also revealed very similar patterns in both cohorts with a rapid increase of effective population sizes over the last 150 generations similar to what was observed in other European countries. A marked bottleneck is also consistently seen in the two datasets starting in the fourteenth century when the Black Death raged in Europe. In conclusion, by performing the first exhaustive study of the genetic structure of France, we fill a gap in the genetic studies in Europe that would be useful to medical geneticists but also historians and archeologists.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Psynome View Post
    Very nice. The Afanasievo hypothesis just became stronger. I'm don't know R1b subclades off the top of my head...are these the same as found in Afanasievo and Yamnaya?

    Edit: it's M269, so yes at that level.
    Are you sure this is not M73?

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    Are you sure this is not M73?
    One of the routes suggested from the paper is south from afanasievo. Second, the admixture from the East Asian source tends to be from a north Asian source rather than Han. (Central China) third, there is little to no EEF which suggests it’s a true isolate since Yamnaya (3000 bc) , and did not mix with the later waves of AndronovoI/sintashta which have quite a bit of EEF. Amazing that these men and women could be intact in eastern xinjiang as of 300 bc.
    YDNA: R1b-BY50830 Stepney, London, UK George Wood b. 1782 English <-> Bavarian cluster
    maternal-gf YDNA: ?? Gurr, James ~1740, Smarden, Kent, England.
    maternal-gm YDNA: R1b-P311+ Beech, John Richard b. 1780, Lewes, England
    maternal-ggf YDNA R1b-U106 Thomas, Edward b 1854, Sittingbourne, Kent
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-Z17901. Gould, John Somerset England 1800s.
    paternal-ggf YDNA: R1b-L48. Scott, William Hamilton Ireland(?) 1800s

    other:
    Welch: early 1800s E-M84 Kent, England.

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  16. #2619
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    It may be a bit too early to say these people lacked Steppe_MLBA (Sintashta-like) ancestry. They can be modeled as Tian_Shan Saka or Hun + East Asian too and plot with Karasuk on f3 Kostenki vs ENF graph in the supplements. Sakas and Karasuk surely had Steppe_MLBA.

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  18. #2620
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    Quote Originally Posted by Shaikorth View Post
    It may be a bit too early to say these people lacked Steppe_MLBA (Sintashta-like) ancestry. They can be modeled as Tian_Shan Saka or Hun + East Asian too and plot with Karasuk on f3 Kostenki vs ENF graph in the supplements. Sakas and Karasuk surely had Steppe_MLBA.
    Time will tell.
    Brilliant choices for comparing "if" they fall under the first time in history a successful star-burst cluster[-R1b-Z2109+ ] that was able to take advantage of the wheel/wagon-copper-iron[Utyevka cemetery I, kurgan 1, grave 1, between 2800 and 2500 BCE,] smelting/horse- cow/sheep domestication on the steppe. From the 6 foot red head found in Bell Beaker Szigetszentmiklós township on Csepel Island R1b-2109+ [massive amount of horse bones]to wagon burials by Maykop. To the stratified R1b-Z2109-Poltavka/amnayta and earliest Sintashta and earliest Sarmatian R1b-Z2109+ .
    Yamnaya Orthodox-3000+/- years of barrow burial culture; containing either, red ochre,axe/dagger, horse remains.
    ydna and or mtdna under study z2109/U5a1
    R1b-Z2103+>R1b-Z2110+ -Yamnaya-Afanasievo -3300–2600 BC, Poltavka- Catacomb-2800–2200 BC, Csepel Island Hungary, Vucedol, Eastern Bell Beakers- Poland -Sambrozec 2800–1800 BCE, Karagash-Khazakhstan 3018-2887 BC-Iran Hajji_Firuz I2327 , Rise 397 Kapan LBA, Armenia , Pokrovka Sarmatians 200 BCE. R1b-Z2109 Sintashta

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