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Thread: Genetic Genealogy & Ancient DNA in the News (DISCUSSION ONLY)

  1. #5741
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    Hello guys
    Who has information about mtDNA remains Himera
    38.4 Mesolithic_North_Africa
    37.4 Anatolia_Barcin_Neolithic
    9.6 Levant_Natufian
    5.8 Caucasian_Neolithic
    4.6 Basal_Central/West_African
    2.2 West-Pontic_Steppe__Eneolithic_Sredny-Stog_Culture
    1.2 Wales_Meso
    0.4 CHN_Mid-Yellow-River_Mid-Neolithic_YangShao_Culture
    0.4 PER_LaGalgada_4100BP

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  3. #5742
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    Quote Originally Posted by capsian View Post
    Hello guys
    Who has information about mtDNA remains Himera
    https://www.pnas.org/doi/suppl/10.10...2119.sd02.xlsx

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  5. #5743
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    Thanks you so much is very interesting to see mtDNA East asian
    38.4 Mesolithic_North_Africa
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    0.4 CHN_Mid-Yellow-River_Mid-Neolithic_YangShao_Culture
    0.4 PER_LaGalgada_4100BP

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  7. #5744
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bruzmi View Post
    When the following article was first mentioned, there was no available data. As of October 2022, the provisional manuscript has been accepted & uploaded:

    Kinship practices in Early Iron Age southeast Europe: genetic and isotopic analysis of burials from the Dolge njive barrow cemetery, Dolenjska, Slovenia


    Very interesting. I'm assuming these are Hallstatt culture samples (if not Urnfield for earlier ones).

    I just looked at an EIA Croatia sample (I5727) from Southern Arc, dated 627 calBCE (rc-dated to 765-489 calBCE) from Sveti Kriz Brdovecki in Zagreb County (northern Croatia). She shows similarity to Beaker Hungary, La Tene samples, and Czech Hallstatt, so I'm thinking she's a Hallstatt Eastern Zone descendant, too.
    Last edited by Michalis Moriopoulos; 10-11-2022 at 08:35 PM.
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  9. #5745
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    I quickly analyzed these two male Gaelic samples from the following preprint as the data seemed to be very good quality.

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...02.02.478802v1

    Code:
    HAN331
    
    Yleaf
    
    HAN331-A-BEX1	R-A260*(xY160211,A10525)
    
    Snipsa
    
    mtDNA: H13a1a14
    
    Result (83.6% 1955 -5 +365): R-A260  
    R-L151 -> R-P312 -> R-S461 -> R-L21 -> R-DF13 -> R-DF49 -> R-Z2980 -> R-Z2976 -> R-DF23 -> R-Z2961 -> R-S645 -> R-Z2965 -> R-M222 -> R-Y2605 -> R-Y2841 -> R-DF104 -> R-DF109 -> R-A18726 -> R-A259 -> R-A260 (ISOGG: )
    Extra: Y81158/MY84/PR12:T FT125411:G F5/M1514:T BY174015:T BY53481:A Z33757:T Z27212:A S8266:T Y60245:A Y25514:T V1120:T Z5879:T Y209581:T FTA21676(H):A Z15109(H):T FT48703(H):T FT148264(H):T ACT3294(H):T FT144722(H):T FT6952(H):A FT74474(H):A FT530(H):T Z22151:T Y341925(H):T FTA86622(H):G FT553(H):T FT191443/FGC92169(H):T FT227759/PF51(H):A BY229589/PF53:A FGC22659/Y7759(H):A FT622(H):T FT227756/PF73(H):C FT200415(H):T Z1105:A FT120583(H):T FGC40746(H):A FT227755/PF79(H):T FT48959(H):T FGC89249:T FT299836(H):A FT88592(H):T PF1479:T F9144(H):T FTA47948(H):T BY39083(H):T FT17012(H):T FT322861(H):T Z5962(H):T Z7117(H):T FT184396(H):A FT173329(H):A FGC2945(H):A FT95728(H):T FT341942(H):T FT362477(H):A FT4376(H):T Y262744(H):T FT8022(H):T Z25844/F14256:T FT184659(H):T FGC73244:T FT86359(H):T FT109004(H):T FGC56458(H):T FTA43073:A Z12611:T MF182755/MF122784(H):T FT18494(H):A Y11118/FGC16209/F9628(H):T FGC28763:T Y208502:A Y82521:T BY6747:A Y34656:T Z41942/Y25880:T BY61759:T Y38696:T ZS5833:T BY22193:A BY62273:T Y83002:T Y149564/ACT3809:A A1078:T S9725:G Y5626:A FT159484:T FTA91011:A BY18067:T Y18955/FGC40280:T M11063/Z8378:T BY4840:T BY25303:T MF37191:T BY199181:T ZS8715:T FGC25471/YP1762:T S6276/Z21803:T FGC34931:T FGC3462/A6855:T FGC85575/BY176456:T Z28779:C Y32556:T FT19197:A ZW01:T Z36791:T FGC31926:T FGC35971:T Y36777:T BY67134:T M9550/V1389:T BY15860:A FGC30658:A Y21692:T Y23354:G Y21693:T Y162385:T BY28573:T Y5620/FGC16684:T FGC57395:A Y20125:A Z32808:T Y141532:T Y35991:T BY152889/Y151308:T M11801:G Y86883:T BY23601:T SK194/V2386:A Z25177:T F165:T BY76270/Y150344:A BY15412:A Y140063:T Y48192:G BY78181:A BY166654:T Y40009:T FT227770/PF338(H):A Y16139:T FGC50257/V5089:T Z36480:A BY42857/V5126:T Y65407:T FT111100:T BY54538:A FGC17888:G FT5096:A Z19788:A BY54568(H):T Y155307(H):T Z35594:A FT142106:T M2452:T Y4365/A366/M12148:A MF32102/Z44744:A MF2286:T CTS1864:T M6613:A A16468:T Y151915/FT221938:T F18771:T FT226645:T Z30832:T Y138996:T BY6279:T L639:T FT138469(H):A FGC77437:T L553:T FGC26326/YP2905:A FT21557:A Y7068/BY14:T FT2924:T PF5752:T TY2942/M5667/CTS3331/PF690/V2635.1/V2635.2:A Y137529:T Y27540:A A20232/BY160782:A MF118850/FT277105:A PH1501:T FT281790:T Y174149:T Y67752:T FGC42687:T PF713:A Y50465:G FGC82260:T V2908/Z17441:T FTB17518:T Y16635:A Y139228:T FGC58752:A M11301/Z11908/C119634:T PH1709:T V2977:T FGC19769:T Y148986:T F11773:T BY103194:T Y94438:G Y29690:T M7644:T Y11394/Z28868:T Z18755:G Y37747:T Y9834/Z9252/V5918:A CTS5173/PF770:T Y20229:T Y95747:T FT9681:T Y14245:T FGC5312:T BY40705:C Y151268:T A24682:T BY15818:T Y96682:A FT42356:T Y96862:T V6225/S18579/Z17221:G Y138988:T CTS6061/PF5453:T F20947:C DC51:A BY109860:T FGC46626:T YP6482:T FT229172/MF142617:T Y142346:T FGC57449:T BY47171:T B211:A Y13306:T BY172837/Y156110:T Y41901:T BY54913:T FT42578:T BY3449:A Y71411:A FGC1719/Y8970:A Z43542:T Y30704:T Z29208:A Y19333:A FGC2726:T Y138426:T FTA50549:C Y5933/FGC18762:A Z27696/ZS5971:T FGC75706(H):A BY117764:A CTS8159/PF1742/M5499:T CTS8161:T Y21865:A PH3524:T BY19437:T FT288538:A FGC42997:A Y54117:T CTS8491:A Y202061/FT297609:T V163/C132342:A S3447:T CTS8927:T Y141724:A ZS10625:T Y102122:A Y73675:T CTS8973:A Y73712:T Z34575:T Y3946/Z26569:A CTS9135/PF2540/M5262:T FT70297:C A9488:T L621/S392:A Y16762:T F3987:T Y29485:T Y24323:G F3988:T S21495:A Y142010:T CTS9745/V3720:T Y55349:T MF16065:T YP6257:A F23450:A FT68679:A Y75195:A FGC63006:T Y196044/FT264634:T BY19531:T FGC33892:A MF86884:T Y153200:T Y265232:T BY165390:T FGC63554/BY17951:A FT31123:A BY40756:T Y145050/BY45169:A Y8520/BY1733:T Y56423:T Y223363:T Y106492:A Z30597:T Y230025:G FT164113:T Z43021:T FTA32744:T FGC76808:T Z39488:T Z16410:A Y180846:T FGC22318:T Y7159:T Y251874:T Y43556:T FT77253:C Y28869:T Y201660/PR3657:T BY137246:A FT284423:T FT284425:T M8480:T Y4643/FGC16506:T CTS10940:A ACT1992/BY55394:T Y147610:T A19372:T Z11213/Y8241:A FT77420:T FGC30796/Y14583:T M11839/CTS11242/PF1231:T FT37848:A FGC48861:T Y236080:A MF156476:T FT99710:A FGC57833:T Z16487:A FT416824:A Y125106/FGC74213:T F3547:T ZS11348:T Y112398:T Y22556:A BY4229:T F26514(H):T ZS2429:A BY149612:A FT44476:T FT227767/PF1311/M11787:C FT69324:T MF1986/ACT355:G Y1578:T Y113180:T B129:A FT227774/M11788/Z12136:A FTB46606(H):A Y165181:G FTA68212:T Y126123:T Y191395:T 
    
    HAN197
    
    Yleaf
    
    R-DF109*(xZS8379,Y3645,DF85,S588,Y134650,FGC4133)
    
    Snipsa
    
    mtDNA: H4a1a2a-a
    
    Result (86.2% 2035 -6 +305): R-BY198 
    R-PF6538 -> R-L151 -> R-P312 -> R-S461 -> R-L21 -> R-DF13 -> R-DF49 -> R-Z2980 -> R-Z2976 -> R-DF23 -> R-Z2961 -> R-S645 -> R-Z2965 -> R-M222 -> R-Y2605 -> R-Y2841 -> R-DF104 -> R-DF109 -> R-A18726 -> R-BY198 (ISOGG: R1b1a1b1a1a2c1a1a1a1a1~)
    Extra: FGC72949/Y60257:T Z34554:A FT11473/Y167249:T FT14772(H):T FT183294(H):T FGC44252(H):T TY45809/Y126996(H):G Y2481/FGC2678(H):A FGC67875(H):T FT227759/PF51(H):A BY229589/PF53:A S3374(H):A FGC40646(H):A FGC24736(H):T FT319113(H):T FT227756/PF73(H):C Y1022:T PF3590(H):A FT227755/PF79(H):T Y259879:A FGC36173:T Z22815:T FTB39340/Y290690:T FGC34400(H):T FT208557(H):T FT341503(H):A FT35934(H):T FGC67001(H):T ACT3465(H):A FT100401(H):T MF1756(H):T FT49101(H):T FGC92142/FT90400:A FT81476(H):T FT120897(H):A Y3106(H):C FT230632(H):T MF656408(H):T FT83105:A FT342061(H):T FT86335(H):T Y211535:T FT66854(H):A Y148492:A Y759:T FT192084(H):A Y176923/FT228401:A FT71759:A FT143419(H):T FT18535(H):T FGC67510(H):T V218.1/V218.2/PF3627/V218:T BY199164:T Y2663/FGC6860:T YP4315:T S2014:T Z39370:A Y130235:T YP1433:A Y61083:T S9647:T FT203818:T A1487:T BY63161:A BY180282(H):T Z23093(H):T Y37597:T FT101040:T FT19067/Y167987:T Y38888:T Y61848:G FGC25471/YP1762:T Z34741:T BY37405:A M1541/E266:A Y62067:T FGC62738:A FGC31219:T V1274:A Y36777:T BY21249/A16663:T FT130385:T A10301:A FT115599:T YP4970:T BY69108:T FT280045:T BY22669/F16612/Z44470:T ZQ147:T Y85934:T BY192494:A A5779:T FT167715:A Y30658/BY14714:T M11801:G BY22040/FGC75611:A FT8695:T Y328164:T FGC42003:T Z18079/BY182:G F1190:T Y129396:A BY74667:T Z42962:A BY74879:T FGC5450:T FT20059:T Z4369/M2760:T A29165/Y205561:T FGC29989:A Y23407:T Z42432:A FT20309:T Y36551:T Y15310/Z34200:T FT53314:T F10308:T FT227770/PF338(H):A F1585:A FGC46328:C BY81968:T Y65520:T Y3382/FGC12623:T FT190455:A FGC3752:T FT286257(H):T FGC59530:T FT34314:T Y196520:A MF135714:T Y204131/FT304387:T Y49398:T Y91281:T Y19050:G FGC32363:A Y21132:T FGC55842:T BY161812:T BY14580:A TY2942/M5667/CTS3331/PF690/V2635.1/V2635.2:A Y67484:A BY206865:T FTA10991:G Y67769:G PF5757:T FT296399/Y202351:T PF713:A Y23901/FGC53597:T FT281897:G YP4735/BY1174/Z38523:A M11301/Z11908/C119634:T Y36084:T Y148986:T Y94320:A M4332:T Y142197:T M4561:A Y24677:A Y7331:A FT372229(H):T Y158172/BY178924:A FGC31592:G A15828:T FGC93907/FT229115/Y188145:A Y165474:A Z41186/BZ1014:T FGC36378/Z36166:T CTS5915:T MF71011:A Z1123/CTS6056:T Z33885:T Z26593:T MF170078:G Y97331:T Y34533:T Y41726:A ZS10890:T BY47171:T BY159697:G Y97869:A M6691:T FT87000:T Y149108:T MF72587:T FGC54471:A ACT2715:T FT79554/Y175482:T BY11388:T Z39399:T Y31850:T MF73220:A S857:T ZS6184:T BY54968:A Y7249:T Z41175:A F22008:T BY36164:A Y304686:T FT418504:T CTS8213:T FT360930:T CTS8308/S4392:A BY162464:T MF145638/Y188777:G Y9957/Z9427/V7049:T ZS4419:T FT108057:T YP110:T FT5823:A YP221/S20646:T ZS11282:T M7187:T V163/C132342:A BY120856:T FGC70597:A FGC63849/Y33009:T A6133:T FGC66840:T CTS9140/PF2161:T PH3951:T M8627:T CTS9520:T A13550:A FGC65020:G FT43230:T FGC13581:T Z307/S498:T BY21659:T Y237408:T Y1315:A MF148779:T Z2835/L759/YSC0000295:T FGC30784:T Y104204:T Y75227:T Y196044/FT264634:T BY19531:T Y125888:T FGC51347:T Y105075:T FGC14890:T Z13804:G FT13744/FGC91137:T PF4588/F3119:T Y19435:T Y17250:T Y105457/BY30590:A YP4047:T Y139185:T Y5076/FGC22190:A BY36195:T Y75923:T Z16314:T Y56345:T Y105766:T MF169104/FT339014:T Y106104:A FT43592:T FGC59094:T BY12829/Z31624:T FGC51821/F24504:T A10874:T BZ3839:T Y57083:A PF1821/M5544:A M281:T A16520:A M5312:C Y31102:T F25075:T A2160/Y11917:T BY138522/V7843:A FT94141:A Y2357/S24423/FGC7623:T Y35950:T Y333665:G FGC17395/Y6877:T FGC32117:T M11839/CTS11242/PF1231:T S25094:T A21042:T FT14098:G DC10:T Y9438/Z16269:A BY47409:T A6071:T F26318:T BY20022:T BY55503:T Y160:G Y112887:T FGC68640:T FT227767/PF1311/M11787:C FT69317:A FT262671:T BZ2215:T Y1578:T Y145881:T FT227774/M11788/Z12136:A FGC72821:T Z4159:T CTS12889:T Y81008:T Y7539/FGC470:T

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  11. #5746
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    They come from the group which was rather derived from the (Alpine-Middle Danubian) Tumulus culture and had Illyrian cultural influences. That's why they could be sampled to begin with (collective clan tumuli). To their North, the more classical Eastern Hallstatt groups like Frög and Kalenderberg, with more Basarabi influences and migrants, did cremate their dead. There was a pretty sharp border between the two, in many respects, so they were interconnected by trade and communication, but were supposedly different ethnicities. Which ones is open to debate.
    I expect Frög to be dominated by R-L2 too, by the way, but having different influences from the East, from along the Danube, resulting among other things in an E-V13 presence, which I didn't expect for those. I did expect however, that some might be J-L283, like one was found in Novo Mesto, probably a foreigner, but apparently not in this sample group.
    Last edited by Riverman; 10-12-2022 at 12:01 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Riverman View Post
    They come from the group which was rather derived from the (Middle Alpine-Middle Danubian) Tumulus culture and had Illyrian cultural influences.
    I'm not an expert on Central European archaeology by any means, but isn't Tumulus culture too early for those dates? As far as I'm aware it's a Bronze Age phenomenon and these samples are very much EIA.

    Unless by that you just mean they are derived from Tumulus in the deep past but aren't actually Hallstatt but something else.
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    Quote Originally Posted by teepean47 View Post
    I quickly analyzed these two male Gaelic samples from the following preprint as the data seemed to be very good quality.

    https://www.biorxiv.org/content/10.1...02.02.478802v1

    Code:
    HAN331
    
    Yleaf
    
    HAN331-A-BEX1	R-A260*(xY160211,A10525)
    
    Snipsa
    
    mtDNA: H13a1a14
    
    Result (83.6% 1955 -5 +365): R-A260  
    R-L151 -> R-P312 -> R-S461 -> R-L21 -> R-DF13 -> R-DF49 -> R-Z2980 -> R-Z2976 -> R-DF23 -> R-Z2961 -> R-S645 -> R-Z2965 -> R-M222 -> R-Y2605 -> R-Y2841 -> R-DF104 -> R-DF109 -> R-A18726 -> R-A259 -> R-A260 (ISOGG: )
    Extra: Y81158/MY84/PR12:T FT125411:G F5/M1514:T BY174015:T BY53481:A Z33757:T Z27212:A S8266:T Y60245:A Y25514:T V1120:T Z5879:T Y209581:T FTA21676(H):A Z15109(H):T FT48703(H):T FT148264(H):T ACT3294(H):T FT144722(H):T FT6952(H):A FT74474(H):A FT530(H):T Z22151:T Y341925(H):T FTA86622(H):G FT553(H):T FT191443/FGC92169(H):T FT227759/PF51(H):A BY229589/PF53:A FGC22659/Y7759(H):A FT622(H):T FT227756/PF73(H):C FT200415(H):T Z1105:A FT120583(H):T FGC40746(H):A FT227755/PF79(H):T FT48959(H):T FGC89249:T FT299836(H):A FT88592(H):T PF1479:T F9144(H):T FTA47948(H):T BY39083(H):T FT17012(H):T FT322861(H):T Z5962(H):T Z7117(H):T FT184396(H):A FT173329(H):A FGC2945(H):A FT95728(H):T FT341942(H):T FT362477(H):A FT4376(H):T Y262744(H):T FT8022(H):T Z25844/F14256:T FT184659(H):T FGC73244:T FT86359(H):T FT109004(H):T FGC56458(H):T FTA43073:A Z12611:T MF182755/MF122784(H):T FT18494(H):A Y11118/FGC16209/F9628(H):T FGC28763:T Y208502:A Y82521:T BY6747:A Y34656:T Z41942/Y25880:T BY61759:T Y38696:T ZS5833:T BY22193:A BY62273:T Y83002:T Y149564/ACT3809:A A1078:T S9725:G Y5626:A FT159484:T FTA91011:A BY18067:T Y18955/FGC40280:T M11063/Z8378:T BY4840:T BY25303:T MF37191:T BY199181:T ZS8715:T FGC25471/YP1762:T S6276/Z21803:T FGC34931:T FGC3462/A6855:T FGC85575/BY176456:T Z28779:C Y32556:T FT19197:A ZW01:T Z36791:T FGC31926:T FGC35971:T Y36777:T BY67134:T M9550/V1389:T BY15860:A FGC30658:A Y21692:T Y23354:G Y21693:T Y162385:T BY28573:T Y5620/FGC16684:T FGC57395:A Y20125:A Z32808:T Y141532:T Y35991:T BY152889/Y151308:T M11801:G Y86883:T BY23601:T SK194/V2386:A Z25177:T F165:T BY76270/Y150344:A BY15412:A Y140063:T Y48192:G BY78181:A BY166654:T Y40009:T FT227770/PF338(H):A Y16139:T FGC50257/V5089:T Z36480:A BY42857/V5126:T Y65407:T FT111100:T BY54538:A FGC17888:G FT5096:A Z19788:A BY54568(H):T Y155307(H):T Z35594:A FT142106:T M2452:T Y4365/A366/M12148:A MF32102/Z44744:A MF2286:T CTS1864:T M6613:A A16468:T Y151915/FT221938:T F18771:T FT226645:T Z30832:T Y138996:T BY6279:T L639:T FT138469(H):A FGC77437:T L553:T FGC26326/YP2905:A FT21557:A Y7068/BY14:T FT2924:T PF5752:T TY2942/M5667/CTS3331/PF690/V2635.1/V2635.2:A Y137529:T Y27540:A A20232/BY160782:A MF118850/FT277105:A PH1501:T FT281790:T Y174149:T Y67752:T FGC42687:T PF713:A Y50465:G FGC82260:T V2908/Z17441:T FTB17518:T Y16635:A Y139228:T FGC58752:A M11301/Z11908/C119634:T PH1709:T V2977:T FGC19769:T Y148986:T F11773:T BY103194:T Y94438:G Y29690:T M7644:T Y11394/Z28868:T Z18755:G Y37747:T Y9834/Z9252/V5918:A CTS5173/PF770:T Y20229:T Y95747:T FT9681:T Y14245:T FGC5312:T BY40705:C Y151268:T A24682:T BY15818:T Y96682:A FT42356:T Y96862:T V6225/S18579/Z17221:G Y138988:T CTS6061/PF5453:T F20947:C DC51:A BY109860:T FGC46626:T YP6482:T FT229172/MF142617:T Y142346:T FGC57449:T BY47171:T B211:A Y13306:T BY172837/Y156110:T Y41901:T BY54913:T FT42578:T BY3449:A Y71411:A FGC1719/Y8970:A Z43542:T Y30704:T Z29208:A Y19333:A FGC2726:T Y138426:T FTA50549:C Y5933/FGC18762:A Z27696/ZS5971:T FGC75706(H):A BY117764:A CTS8159/PF1742/M5499:T CTS8161:T Y21865:A PH3524:T BY19437:T FT288538:A FGC42997:A Y54117:T CTS8491:A Y202061/FT297609:T V163/C132342:A S3447:T CTS8927:T Y141724:A ZS10625:T Y102122:A Y73675:T CTS8973:A Y73712:T Z34575:T Y3946/Z26569:A CTS9135/PF2540/M5262:T FT70297:C A9488:T L621/S392:A Y16762:T F3987:T Y29485:T Y24323:G F3988:T S21495:A Y142010:T CTS9745/V3720:T Y55349:T MF16065:T YP6257:A F23450:A FT68679:A Y75195:A FGC63006:T Y196044/FT264634:T BY19531:T FGC33892:A MF86884:T Y153200:T Y265232:T BY165390:T FGC63554/BY17951:A FT31123:A BY40756:T Y145050/BY45169:A Y8520/BY1733:T Y56423:T Y223363:T Y106492:A Z30597:T Y230025:G FT164113:T Z43021:T FTA32744:T FGC76808:T Z39488:T Z16410:A Y180846:T FGC22318:T Y7159:T Y251874:T Y43556:T FT77253:C Y28869:T Y201660/PR3657:T BY137246:A FT284423:T FT284425:T M8480:T Y4643/FGC16506:T CTS10940:A ACT1992/BY55394:T Y147610:T A19372:T Z11213/Y8241:A FT77420:T FGC30796/Y14583:T M11839/CTS11242/PF1231:T FT37848:A FGC48861:T Y236080:A MF156476:T FT99710:A FGC57833:T Z16487:A FT416824:A Y125106/FGC74213:T F3547:T ZS11348:T Y112398:T Y22556:A BY4229:T F26514(H):T ZS2429:A BY149612:A FT44476:T FT227767/PF1311/M11787:C FT69324:T MF1986/ACT355:G Y1578:T Y113180:T B129:A FT227774/M11788/Z12136:A FTB46606(H):A Y165181:G FTA68212:T Y126123:T Y191395:T 
    
    HAN197
    
    Yleaf
    
    R-DF109*(xZS8379,Y3645,DF85,S588,Y134650,FGC4133)
    
    Snipsa
    
    mtDNA: H4a1a2a-a
    
    Result (86.2% 2035 -6 +305): R-BY198 
    R-PF6538 -> R-L151 -> R-P312 -> R-S461 -> R-L21 -> R-DF13 -> R-DF49 -> R-Z2980 -> R-Z2976 -> R-DF23 -> R-Z2961 -> R-S645 -> R-Z2965 -> R-M222 -> R-Y2605 -> R-Y2841 -> R-DF104 -> R-DF109 -> R-A18726 -> R-BY198 (ISOGG: R1b1a1b1a1a2c1a1a1a1a1~)
    Extra: FGC72949/Y60257:T Z34554:A FT11473/Y167249:T FT14772(H):T FT183294(H):T FGC44252(H):T TY45809/Y126996(H):G Y2481/FGC2678(H):A FGC67875(H):T FT227759/PF51(H):A BY229589/PF53:A S3374(H):A FGC40646(H):A FGC24736(H):T FT319113(H):T FT227756/PF73(H):C Y1022:T PF3590(H):A FT227755/PF79(H):T Y259879:A FGC36173:T Z22815:T FTB39340/Y290690:T FGC34400(H):T FT208557(H):T FT341503(H):A FT35934(H):T FGC67001(H):T ACT3465(H):A FT100401(H):T MF1756(H):T FT49101(H):T FGC92142/FT90400:A FT81476(H):T FT120897(H):A Y3106(H):C FT230632(H):T MF656408(H):T FT83105:A FT342061(H):T FT86335(H):T Y211535:T FT66854(H):A Y148492:A Y759:T FT192084(H):A Y176923/FT228401:A FT71759:A FT143419(H):T FT18535(H):T FGC67510(H):T V218.1/V218.2/PF3627/V218:T BY199164:T Y2663/FGC6860:T YP4315:T S2014:T Z39370:A Y130235:T YP1433:A Y61083:T S9647:T FT203818:T A1487:T BY63161:A BY180282(H):T Z23093(H):T Y37597:T FT101040:T FT19067/Y167987:T Y38888:T Y61848:G FGC25471/YP1762:T Z34741:T BY37405:A M1541/E266:A Y62067:T FGC62738:A FGC31219:T V1274:A Y36777:T BY21249/A16663:T FT130385:T A10301:A FT115599:T YP4970:T BY69108:T FT280045:T BY22669/F16612/Z44470:T ZQ147:T Y85934:T BY192494:A A5779:T FT167715:A Y30658/BY14714:T M11801:G BY22040/FGC75611:A FT8695:T Y328164:T FGC42003:T Z18079/BY182:G F1190:T Y129396:A BY74667:T Z42962:A BY74879:T FGC5450:T FT20059:T Z4369/M2760:T A29165/Y205561:T FGC29989:A Y23407:T Z42432:A FT20309:T Y36551:T Y15310/Z34200:T FT53314:T F10308:T FT227770/PF338(H):A F1585:A FGC46328:C BY81968:T Y65520:T Y3382/FGC12623:T FT190455:A FGC3752:T FT286257(H):T FGC59530:T FT34314:T Y196520:A MF135714:T Y204131/FT304387:T Y49398:T Y91281:T Y19050:G FGC32363:A Y21132:T FGC55842:T BY161812:T BY14580:A TY2942/M5667/CTS3331/PF690/V2635.1/V2635.2:A Y67484:A BY206865:T FTA10991:G Y67769:G PF5757:T FT296399/Y202351:T PF713:A Y23901/FGC53597:T FT281897:G YP4735/BY1174/Z38523:A M11301/Z11908/C119634:T Y36084:T Y148986:T Y94320:A M4332:T Y142197:T M4561:A Y24677:A Y7331:A FT372229(H):T Y158172/BY178924:A FGC31592:G A15828:T FGC93907/FT229115/Y188145:A Y165474:A Z41186/BZ1014:T FGC36378/Z36166:T CTS5915:T MF71011:A Z1123/CTS6056:T Z33885:T Z26593:T MF170078:G Y97331:T Y34533:T Y41726:A ZS10890:T BY47171:T BY159697:G Y97869:A M6691:T FT87000:T Y149108:T MF72587:T FGC54471:A ACT2715:T FT79554/Y175482:T BY11388:T Z39399:T Y31850:T MF73220:A S857:T ZS6184:T BY54968:A Y7249:T Z41175:A F22008:T BY36164:A Y304686:T FT418504:T CTS8213:T FT360930:T CTS8308/S4392:A BY162464:T MF145638/Y188777:G Y9957/Z9427/V7049:T ZS4419:T FT108057:T YP110:T FT5823:A YP221/S20646:T ZS11282:T M7187:T V163/C132342:A BY120856:T FGC70597:A FGC63849/Y33009:T A6133:T FGC66840:T CTS9140/PF2161:T PH3951:T M8627:T CTS9520:T A13550:A FGC65020:G FT43230:T FGC13581:T Z307/S498:T BY21659:T Y237408:T Y1315:A MF148779:T Z2835/L759/YSC0000295:T FGC30784:T Y104204:T Y75227:T Y196044/FT264634:T BY19531:T Y125888:T FGC51347:T Y105075:T FGC14890:T Z13804:G FT13744/FGC91137:T PF4588/F3119:T Y19435:T Y17250:T Y105457/BY30590:A YP4047:T Y139185:T Y5076/FGC22190:A BY36195:T Y75923:T Z16314:T Y56345:T Y105766:T MF169104/FT339014:T Y106104:A FT43592:T FGC59094:T BY12829/Z31624:T FGC51821/F24504:T A10874:T BZ3839:T Y57083:A PF1821/M5544:A M281:T A16520:A M5312:C Y31102:T F25075:T A2160/Y11917:T BY138522/V7843:A FT94141:A Y2357/S24423/FGC7623:T Y35950:T Y333665:G FGC17395/Y6877:T FGC32117:T M11839/CTS11242/PF1231:T S25094:T A21042:T FT14098:G DC10:T Y9438/Z16269:A BY47409:T A6071:T F26318:T BY20022:T BY55503:T Y160:G Y112887:T FGC68640:T FT227767/PF1311/M11787:C FT69317:A FT262671:T BZ2215:T Y1578:T Y145881:T FT227774/M11788/Z12136:A FGC72821:T Z4159:T CTS12889:T Y81008:T Y7539/FGC470:T
    A very intersting thing in this report if that they say the two individuals (both pre-Norman and surely native Gaels) plotted between Irish and Scottish people. This is of course in Ulster (extreme SW Ulster) but the date are too early to explain the intermediate Irish-Scottish plotting by any known Scottish migration such as galloglasses or lowland scottish planters. This suggests that the Irish-Scottish intermediate positioning of Ulster Gaels predates all the historical explanations and existed in pre Norman times. The two samples are a few centuries different in date so the pattern looks persistent and ancient (the earlier of the 2 sounds pre viking. Given that Ireland appears to have had no substantial migrantiom to it from say 400AD to the vikings then it seems likely this autosomal pattern was established in pre-Christian times.

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  15. #5749
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    Quote Originally Posted by Michalis Moriopoulos View Post
    I'm not an expert on Central European archaeology by any means, but isn't Tumulus culture too early for those dates? As far as I'm aware it's a Bronze Age phenomenon and these samples are very much EIA.

    Unless by that you just mean they are derived from Tumulus in the deep past but aren't actually Hallstatt but something else.
    Exactly, R-L2 first spread big time with the Tumulus culture, then the Tumulus cultural sphere split up in different provinces, among these the Middle Danubian Urnfield culture and groups which preferred inhumation, being closer to the Illyrians. In the Hallstatt period there were renewed Eastern and Southern influences, and this samples come from the Unterkrainische Gruppe, which was more Illyrian oriented, part of the wider Eastern Hallstatt sphere.

    That area was known for the strong Illyrian and Mediterranean (Greek and Etruscan) cultural influences:
    https://www.noricum.de/info/kelten-d...ergr%C3%A4ber/

    But that was always considered more of an elite fashion.



    In Novo Mesto they found a J-L283 Illyrian, so the contacts were real too, and they show in the funerary rites.

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  17. #5750
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    Quote Originally Posted by alan View Post
    A very intersting thing in this report if that they say the two individuals (both pre-Norman and surely native Gaels) plotted between Irish and Scottish people. This is of course in Ulster (extreme SW Ulster) but the date are too early to explain the intermediate Irish-Scottish plotting by any known Scottish migration such as galloglasses or lowland scottish planters. This suggests that the Irish-Scottish intermediate positioning of Ulster Gaels predates all the historical explanations and existed in pre Norman times. The two samples are a few centuries different in date so the pattern looks persistent and ancient (the earlier of the 2 sounds pre viking. Given that Ireland appears to have had no substantial migrantiom to it from say 400AD to the vikings then it seems likely this autosomal pattern was established in pre-Christian times.
    What about Dal riada times? Cruithin?

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