Genetic Genealogy & Ancient DNA in the News (DISCUSSION ONLY)

[RCO]

Plotting is to place a point on a coordinate plane by using X and Y coordinates. Now find the Alans, then find the distant KZH / Kazakh - It's easy !

Alani Lusitaniam - Alans in Portugal

Hydatius (c. 400 - c. 469 A.D.) Chronicon
http://thelatinlibrary.com/hydatiuschronicon.html

Remembered by the overthrow of the plagues and the ravages of the provinces of Hispaniae, the barbarians, in order to make peace, having turned to the merciful Lord, divided the regions by lot for the inhabitants of the provinces. The Vandals and the Suevi occupy Gaul, which is situated at the extremity of the ocean of the western sea. The Alans were allotted Lusitania and the Carthaginian provinces, and the Vandals, under the name of Silingi, the Baetica. The Hispani, through the cities and castles left over from the districts, submit themselves to the servitude of the barbarians who dominate the provinces.

[Riverman]

Plotting is to place a point on a coordinate plane by using X and Y coordinates. Now find the Alans, then find the distant KZH / Kazakh - It's easy !

Alani Lusitaniam - Alans in Portugal

Hydatius (c. 400 - c. 469 A.D.) Chronicon
http://thelatinlibrary.com/hydatiuschronicon.html

A lot of different people, Iranian and Turkic for example, moved into the Caucasus area and they are now all pretty similar, local Caucasian shifted. That is completely unrelated to their ultimate origin, because we have Sarmatian genomes, and they were steppe people by and large - but they did mix with locals, just like in the Carpathian basin, even more so and for a longer period of time (since they got replaced in the Carpathian basin) in the Caucasus. This has zero to do with a West Asian (modern) Iranian type of ancestry.

[RCO]

The Alans had a West Asian/Iranian origin and they always invaded the steppe from the South. Some of the Alans in the plot were close to IRAN, ARM, AZR and the North Caucasus.

[Ruderico]

The Alans had a West Asian/Iranian origin and they always invaded the steppe from the South. Some of the Alans in the plot were close to IRAN, ARM, AZR and the North Caucasus.

And the others plot with their linguistic cousins in the Eurasian steppe, which is the common link that binds them together, and explains their actual origin.

[CopperAxe]

The Alans had a West Asian/Iranian origin and they always invaded the steppe from the South. Some of the Alans in the plot were close to IRAN, ARM, AZR and the North Caucasus.

This is just nonsense. The proximity is just because those Alan samples are from the Caucasus and were mixed with, well you guessed it, Caucasian peoples. The oldest mentions of the Alans come from Chinese records and mentions them north of the Aral Sea, and then later mentions them migrating westwards and establishing their realm there. These are followed by records mentioning the Alans invading Armenia, Parthia, Media and such from the north. Historical records > your haplotism induced Iran obsession.

Not to mention Alanic is an East Iranian language very far removed from the west Iranian languages spoken in Iran.

[Alain]

This is just nonsense. The proximity is just because those Alan samples are from the Caucasus and were mixed with, well you guessed it, Caucasian peoples. The oldest mentions of the Alans come from Chinese records and mentions them north of the Aral Sea, and then later mentions them migrating westwards and establishing their realm there. These are followed by records mentioning the Alans invading Armenia, Parthia, Media and such from the north. Historical records > your haplotism induced Iran obsession.

Not to mention Alanic is an East Iranian language very far removed from the west Iranian languages spoken in Iran.

Ossetian and Farsi also have a very big difference in understanding as opposed to Farsi and Dari

[J Man]

The original Alans were a steppe derived population. As they moved into the Caucasus they mixed with the natives and ended up being a hybrid population. I have heard that upcoming Alan samples from the lowlands of the Caucasus will have steppe derived Y-DNA clades while the samples from the highlands have Caucasus related Y-DNA clades. The sample number is small though still.

[RCO]

All Ancient Iranian populations, the original ones from PIE source area in the Eastern Wing of the Southern Arc, had Y-DNA J1 and they were related to the development of diverse Ancient Iranian J1 branches from Iran.
BMAC, Afanasievo, Khvalysnk, , Don-Vasilyevskiy Kordon, Hasanlu, Caspian Sea Shah Tepe and Shamakhi.
In the Bronze Age they were in the North and the South, in the East and West of the Caspian Sea, in Iran, the Caucasus and in the Steppe.

Early Alans had J1 - Murat Dzhaubermezov

Sarmatians had J1
Age: Sarmatian Culture;
Age Estimate: 100-200 CE
Y-SNP: J1-M267+
A80304 and A80303
Area: North Ossetia-Alania
Location: Beslan
Coordinates: 43.209970°, 44.556050°
Burial Type:

Gennady Afanasiev
https://archaeolog-ru.academia.edu/GennadyAfanasiev
Афанасьев Г.Е., Ван Л., Вень Ш., Вэй Л., Добровольская М.В., Коробов Д.С., Решетова И.К., Ли Х., Тун С. Хазарские конфедераты в бассейне Дона // Тезисы докладов на Всероссийской научной конференции "Естественнонаучные методы исследования и парадигма современной археологии". М.: ИА РАН. 2015.

[Ruderico]

All Ancient Iranian populations, the original ones from PIE source area in the Eastern Wing of the Southern Arc, had Y-DNA J1 and they were related to the development of diverse Ancient Iranian J1 branches from Iran.

Please..

https://www.academia.edu/37632132/13...an_pit_No_3_A_



It doesn't even make sense to put PIE and Iranian in the same sentence, they are separated by thousands of years.

[Riverman]

All Ancient Iranian populations, the original ones from PIE source area in the Eastern Wing of the Southern Arc, had Y-DNA J1 and they were related to the development of diverse Ancient Iranian J1 branches from Iran.
BMAC, Afanasievo, Khvalysnk, , Don-Vasilyevskiy Kordon, Hasanlu, Caspian Sea Shah Tepe and Shamakhi.
In the Bronze Age they were in the North and the South, in the East and West of the Caspian Sea, in Iran, the Caucasus and in the Steppe.

Early Alans had J1 - Murat Dzhaubermezov

Sarmatians had J1
Age: Sarmatian Culture;
Age Estimate: 100-200 CE
Y-SNP: J1-M267+
A80304 and A80303
Area: North Ossetia-Alania
Location: Beslan
Coordinates: 43.209970°, 44.556050°
Burial Type:

Gennady Afanasiev
https://archaeolog-ru.academia.edu/GennadyAfanasiev
Афанасьев Г.Е., Ван Л., Вень Ш., Вэй Л., Добровольская М.В., Коробов Д.С., Решетова И.К., Ли Х., Тун С. Хазарские конфедераты в бассейне Дона // Тезисы докладов на Всероссийской научной конференции "Естественнонаучные методы исследования и парадигма современной археологии". М.: ИА РАН. 2015.

That becomes another "R1b is from Iberia" and "R1a from South Asia" moment. At the root of the Indo-Iranians is the Sintashta chariot complex and they being dominated by R-Z93 from start to finish. Most other haplogroups are either small minorities ore admixture events. Which is why in Northern China and India R-Z93 is the most common West Eurasian patrilineage usually:

https://cache.eupedia.com/images/con...93-Eurasia.png

And we do know they came from the forest steppe-North Pontic steppe, we have samples from Corded Ware related groups in Russia.