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Thread: Z251 (L21>DF13>Z251) and Subclades L555 & L583

  1. #1
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    Z251 (L21>DF13>Z251) and Subclades L555 & L583

    Things aren't looking up for Z251 as a potential refuge for our stranded DF13* guys. I haven't seen a positive result yet, and there were five more this morning. I count 11 Z251 test results since 11 April, but no positives.

    I'm not trying to discourage people from ordering it, but I just haven't seen a single positive yet.
    Last edited by Mikewww; 09-16-2013 at 05:13 PM. Reason: Update title related to deeper understanding of tree

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    Z251 negative Dag Nabbit!!!

    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

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    I have noted that there are five addtional kits awaiting their Z251 results via the WTY L21 project.

    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Things aren't looking up for Z251 as a potential refuge for our stranded DF13* guys. I haven't seen a positive result yet, and there were five more this morning. I count 11 Z251 test results since 11 April, but no positives.
    I'm not trying to discourage people from ordering it, but I just haven't seen a single positive yet.
    Yes, disappointing so far. It seems that a lot of these newly discovered SNPs depend on a couple of quick hits to get off to a good start for exploratory testing.

    Here is a post from one of the citizen-scientist R1b1a2 1kHG project researchers.

    On R1b-L21-Project yahoo group on Feb 22.
    Quote Originally Posted by Andy Grierson
    Z251 was identified some time ago as part of our analysis of 1000 genomes data. However, because of problems with primer design, until now it has been neglected....

    I was able to design some primers that allowed verification of the variant, and confirm its phylogentic location under DF13, parallel to all known subclades. With Thomas's help we now have a set of primers that give unambiguous results, so I expect that this marker should be available through FTDNA in the near future.

    I am pleased to report that investigations in a series of British samples suggest Z251 tags a reasonably common subclade of DF13, with a frequency similar to the major branches (DF1, DF21, DF49, Z253).

    I'm hopeful that this marker will make a good number of the DF13* folk lose their asterisk....
    I would think that we are going to have some hits (positives) on this, but it appears that this will be like shooting in the dark. I guess its not as bad as what some explorers faced.
    Ferdinand Magellan's daring circumnavigation of the globe in the sixteenth ... Mariners feared they could literally sail over the edge of the world


    BTW, Rich. Thanks for using a consistent format for starting this kinds of threads on single SNPs. It makes it easy to find.
    Last edited by Mikewww; 04-18-2013 at 02:54 PM.

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    Well, we have our first Z251+ results this morning: Munn, kit 139697, McKnight, kit 29253, and Watt, kit 89888.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Well, we have our first Z251+ results this morning: Munn, kit 139697, McKnight, kit 29253, and Watt, kit 89888.
    I stil see five still awaiting results.

    It appeares that variety 912 is one of the + kits and the other two are 13*- uas and zzDF13unassigned.

    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

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    EDIT I had the wrong guy and should have checked the Y SNP report first. It is 29523 so the "5" immediately follows the the "29". There is no connection of Z251 to L1335. L1335+ folks are Z251-

    f29523 McNaught is in an unassignable DF13* paragroup, at least until now.

    f139697 Godwin (Munn is owner) is in a small variety I all "921". It looks like mostly Godwin people.

    f89888 Watt is in any unassignable STR signature type so.

    This could indicate Z251 is old given the other three folks that are positive.
    Last edited by Mikewww; 04-23-2013 at 01:59 PM.

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    29253 is also L1335- as per snp page.

    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

  9. #9
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    EDIT I had the wrong guy and should have checked the Y SNP report first. It is 29523 so the "5" immediately follows the the "29". There is no connection of Z251 to L1335. L1335+ folks are Z251-

    f29523 McNaught is in an unassignable DF13* paragroup, at least until now.

    f139697 Godwin (Munn is owner) is in a small variety I all "921". It looks like mostly Godwin people.

    f89888 Watt is in any unassignable STR signature type so.

    This could indicate Z251 is old given the other three folks that are positive.
    That was my error in reporting the results. I should have typed 29523 but typed 29253 instead. Sorry. It was early in the morning.

  10. #10
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    Those Dang Fuzzy Typo Mites...

    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

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