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Thread: E1a1 among Ashkenazi Jews

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by wandering_amorite View Post
    J1c7a is likely Baltic or Scandinavian. As far as I know, all the attested non-Ashkenazi J1c7a's out there are Swedish, Finnish, and Estonian.
    http://www.ianlogan.co.uk/sequences_..._sequences.htm Some from Iran, Hungary, Ukraine etc..

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  3. #12
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    There are a couple of subclades of J1c7a that are listed as Ashkenazi mtdna's:

    Haplogroup J comprises 7% of the Ashkenazi control-region database. Around 72% of these can be assigned to J1c, now thought to have arisen within Late Glacial Europe30, and 19% belong to J1b1a1, also restricted to Europe. Thus >90% of the Ashkenazi J lineages have a European origin, with ~7% (J1b and J2b) less clearly associated. Many have a probable west/central European source, despite (like H) being most frequent in eastern Ashkenazim. The four Ashkenazi J mitogenomes, in J1c5, J1c7a1a and J1c7d, once again show a striking pattern of Mediterranean, west and central European lineages enclosing Ashkenazi/east European ones (Fig. 9).
    http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/13...comms3543.html

    Run the raw data through James Lick's analysis tool to see if he can be classified further. At 23andme, there was a population of non Ashkenazi J1c7a's from Germany/Eastern Europe/Scandinavia and Ashkenazi J1c7a's from Eastern European countries. Jim Logan has some spreadsheets in Group J from FTDNA, and J1c7a is most prevalent in 1.) Scandinavian countries (Sweden was highest); 2.) Eastern Europe (Evenly distributed except Latvia, Siberia, and Kazakhstan); 3.) Central Europe (Germany was highest.) I would guess that J1c7a was absorbed into the Ashkenazi population in Central/Eastern Europe and given the lower numbers, probably in historically recent times. J1c7a is absent in the Mediterranean, with only one sample from Italy of J1c7. Is this person tested at FTDNA or somewhere else? If FTDNA FMS, they are behind on the Phylotree so run the Fasta file through the James Lick analysis tool but matches should show which population he matches. My J1c3i FMS, listed only as J1c3 by FTDNA, but my matches line up with my mitochondrial ancestress very well.

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  5. #13
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little bit View Post
    There are a couple of subclades of J1c7a that are listed as Ashkenazi mtdna's:


    http://www.nature.com/ncomms/2013/13...comms3543.html

    Run the raw data through James Lick's analysis tool to see if he can be classified further. At 23andme, there was a population of non Ashkenazi J1c7a's from Germany/Eastern Europe/Scandinavia and Ashkenazi J1c7a's from Eastern European countries. Jim Logan has some spreadsheets in Group J from FTDNA, and J1c7a is most prevalent in 1.) Scandinavian countries (Sweden was highest); 2.) Eastern Europe (Evenly distributed except Latvia, Siberia, and Kazakhstan); 3.) Central Europe (Germany was highest.) I would guess that J1c7a was absorbed into the Ashkenazi population in Central/Eastern Europe and given the lower numbers, probably in historically recent times. J1c7a is absent in the Mediterranean, with only one sample from Italy of J1c7. Is this person tested at FTDNA or somewhere else? If FTDNA FMS, they are behind on the Phylotree so run the Fasta file through the James Lick analysis tool but matches should show which population he matches. My J1c3i FMS, listed only as J1c3 by FTDNA, but my matches line up with my mitochondrial ancestress very well.

    This is his James Lick results:

    Markers found (shown as differences to rCRS):

    HVR2: 73G 228A 263G 295T 489C
    CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 6464A 6554T 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12127A 12612G 13681G 13708A 14766T 14798C 15452A
    HVR1: 16069T 16092C 16126C 16261T
    IMPORTANT NOTE: The above marker list is almost certainly incomplete due to limitations of genotyping technology and is not comparable to mtDNA sequencing results. It should not be used with services or tools that expect sequencing results, such as mitosearch.

    Best mtDNA Haplogroup Matches:
    1) J1c7a
    Defining Markers for haplogroup J1c7a:
    HVR2: 73G (185A) (228A) 263G 295T 462T 489C
    CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 6464A 6554T 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12127A 12612G 13681G 13708A 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A
    HVR1: 16069T (16092C) 16126C 16261T

    Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup J1c7a:
    H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 295T 489C 10398G 12612G 13708A 16069T ⇨ J ⇨ 462T 3010A ⇨ J1 ⇨ (185A) (228A) 14798C ⇨ J1c ⇨ 16261T ⇨ J1c(C16261T) ⇨ 6554T 12127A (16092C) ⇨ J1c7 ⇨ 6464A 13681G ⇨ J1c7a

    Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
    Matches(29): 73G (228A) 263G 295T 489C 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 6464A 6554T 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12127A 12612G 13681G 13708A 14766T 14798C 15452A 16069T (16092C) 16126C 16261T
    Untested(2): 185 462 15326

    2) J1c7
    Defining Markers for haplogroup J1c7:
    HVR2: 73G (185A) (228A) 263G 295T 462T 489C
    CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 6554T 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12127A 12612G 13708A 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A
    HVR1: 16069T (16092C) 16126C 16261T

    Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup J1c7 (plus extra markers):
    H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 295T 489C 10398G 12612G 13708A 16069T ⇨ J ⇨ 462T 3010A ⇨ J1 ⇨ (185A) (228A) 14798C ⇨ J1c ⇨ 16261T ⇨ J1c(C16261T) ⇨ 6554T 12127A (16092C) ⇨ J1c7 ⇨ 6464A 13681G

    Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
    Matches(27): 73G (228A) 263G 295T 489C 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 6554T 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12127A 12612G 13708A 14766T 14798C 15452A 16069T (16092C) 16126C 16261T
    Extras(2): 6464A 13681G
    Untested(2): 185 462 15326

    3) J1c(C16261T)
    Defining Markers for haplogroup J1c(C16261T):
    HVR2: 73G (185A) (228A) 263G 295T 462T 489C
    CR: 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 14766T 14798C 15326G 15452A
    HVR1: 16069T 16126C 16261T

    Marker path from rCRS to haplogroup J1c(C16261T) (plus extra markers):
    H2a2a1(rCRS) ⇨ 263G ⇨ H2a2a ⇨ 8860G 15326G ⇨ H2a2 ⇨ 750G ⇨ H2a ⇨ 4769G ⇨ H2 ⇨ 1438G ⇨ H ⇨ 2706G 7028T ⇨ HV ⇨ 14766T ⇨ R0 ⇨ 73G 11719A ⇨ R ⇨ 4216C ⇨ R2'JT ⇨ 11251G 15452A 16126C ⇨ JT ⇨ 295T 489C 10398G 12612G 13708A 16069T ⇨ J ⇨ 462T 3010A ⇨ J1 ⇨ (185A) (228A) 14798C ⇨ J1c ⇨ 16261T ⇨ J1c(C16261T) ⇨ 6464A 6554T 12127A 13681G 16092C

    Imperfect Match. Your results contained differences with this haplogroup:
    Matches(24): 73G (228A) 263G 295T 489C 750G 1438G 2706G 3010A 4216C 4769G 7028T 8860G 10398G 11251G 11719A 12612G 13708A 14766T 14798C 15452A 16069T 16126C 16261T
    Extras(5): 6464A 6554T 12127A 13681G 16092C
    Untested(2): 185 462 15326
    “Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan”.

    Four things are the gift of Multan: Dusty winds, hot seasons, beggars and graveyards.




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  7. #14
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    Several untested snps - is that 23andme v4 results? 23andme dropped the marker 185 marker from this chip when it switched to v4, but I only mention it to identify the chip. If the friend wants to know which group of J1c7a's he matches, he will have to take FTDNA's full mitochondrial sequence test, run his fasta file through the James Lick tool, and see who he matches. 23andme's mtdna test is great for basic info but not enough to make a final decision on subclade or provide matching.
    My Gedmatch kits: M102536 (v3 upgrade); M054852 (v2); A449981 (Ancestry v1)
    Known: 87.5% UK/Ireland American Colonial; 12.5% PA Dutch Mennonites from Germany & Switzerland
    J1c3i mitochondrial ancestress was Swiss Mennonite from Conestoga, Lancaster PA

  8. #15
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    Quote Originally Posted by Little bit View Post
    Several untested snps - is that 23andme v4 results? 23andme dropped the marker 185 marker from this chip when it switched to v4, but I only mention it to identify the chip. If the friend wants to know which group of J1c7a's he matches, he will have to take FTDNA's full mitochondrial sequence test, run his fasta file through the James Lick tool, and see who he matches. 23andme's mtdna test is great for basic info but not enough to make a final decision on subclade or provide matching.
    Yeah, unfortunately it's a 23andMe v4 chip.
    “Chahar chez est tohfay Multan, Gard-o- Garma, Gada-o- Goristan”.

    Four things are the gift of Multan: Dusty winds, hot seasons, beggars and graveyards.




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  10. #16
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    It's possible this entered the Ashkenazi Jewish gene pool when Africans migrated via trade routes into the Levant region

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