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Thread: L176.2 & SRY2627 (DF27>Z196>L176.2) & L165 too

  1. #151
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.A. Jarnagin View Post
    I got the CTS4188 result from Geno 2.0 and then transferred to FTDNA.
    FTDNA haplotree shows DF27>Z195>L176>CTS4188.
    I'm presumed positive for DF27, positive for Z195, but presumed negative for L176.
    I don't understand--If CTS4188 stems from L176, why am I presumed negative for L176?
    Also, what is L176.2?
    The mutation L176 is a deletion of AAAAC at the position 21779256..21779257. It happened in R1b DF27 people and in R1a CTS4179 people. Since it has happened in two different haplogroups it is given a .1 and .2 version. http://www.isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_YDNA_SNP_Index.html The FTDNA tree has trouble determining if someone should be considered negative or positive. There is no question that you are positive for L176.2. YFull http://www.yfull.com/tree/R-Z198/ and Alex Williamson http://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=187 use S228/Z198 instead of L176.2. Everyone that is positive for L176.2 is also positive for S228/Z198.

    You should order the BigY test or order S11121 at http://www.yseq.net/product_info.php?products_id=641

    Have you had a Y-DNA STR test such as the Y-DNA37 or Y-DNA67 test?

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  3. #152
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    So L176.1 is a R1a mutation, and L176.2 is R1b.

    "The mutation L176 is a deletion of AAAAC at the position 21779256..21779257."
    I don't even know what that means, haven't learned anything about positions yet.
    Before a couple weeks ago, I knew absolutely nothing about any of this stuff.
    But I'm trying my best to learn. Thanks for the responses.

    I joined the 2 projects you mentioned, DF27 and SRY2627/L176.2

    Geno 2.0 is all I've done so far. The other tests you mentioned, why should I order them?
    Just trying to understand, thank you.

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  5. #153
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.A. Jarnagin View Post
    So L176.1 is a R1a mutation, and L176.2 is R1b.

    "The mutation L176 is a deletion of AAAAC at the position 21779256..21779257."
    I don't even know what that means, haven't learned anything about positions yet.
    Before a couple weeks ago, I knew absolutely nothing about any of this stuff.
    But I'm trying my best to learn. Thanks for the responses.

    I joined the 2 projects you mentioned, DF27 and SRY2627/L176.2

    Geno 2.0 is all I've done so far. The other tests you mentioned, why should I order them?
    Just trying to understand, thank you.
    The Big-Y test has the potential of discovering new snp's that may or may not be specific to you. If cost is no issue then I would opt for that. If cost is an issue then I would test the single snp at yseq. Extending your y-str markers will help place you in a broader range of potential clusters. It will also help you to match others who have tested out that far.

    I would wait for the time being and let the admins place you in a specific category at the projects you just joined. They will help you look for str patterns and inform you of the best snp's to test for.
     
    Y-DNA : R1b-P312>DF27>Z196>L176.2>Z262>SRY2627*

    mtDNA : J1c8

    Lactase Persistence: rs4988235 - AA rs182549 - TT

    EEF 49.22068981
    WHG 35.89409732
    ANE 14.88521287


    Eurogenes K7:
    WHG 61.67%
    ENF 19.35%
    ANE 15.21%


    Ysearch - ky8wb

    ftdna - 151463

    23andMe - M936999

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  7. #154
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    Quote Originally Posted by B.A. Jarnagin View Post
    So L176.1 is a R1a mutation, and L176.2 is R1b.
    Yes, but it's in the exact same position within the Y-chromosome so it is actually the exact same mutation even though it happened in specific branches two completely different haplogroups.

    Quote Originally Posted by B.A. Jarnagin View Post
    "The mutation L176 is a deletion of AAAAC at the position 21779256..21779257."
    I don't even know what that means, haven't learned anything about positions yet.
    Before a couple weeks ago, I knew absolutely nothing about any of this stuff.
    But I'm trying my best to learn. Thanks for the responses.
    The position is the location within the Y-chromosome that the mutation happened. In this case the mutation was a deletion of AAAAC.


    Quote Originally Posted by B.A. Jarnagin View Post
    I joined the 2 projects you mentioned, DF27 and SRY2627/L176.2

    Geno 2.0 is all I've done so far. The other tests you mentioned, why should I order them?
    Just trying to understand, thank you.
    The STR test is in order for you to determine if you closely match anyone else. The STR testing is more for recent ancestry but since there can be convergence with STRs there needs to be SNP testing in order to determine if the match is coincidence or not. The SNP testing by itself is normally for 4,000 years or more ago. For instance CTS4188 is estimated to be 4,700 years old. http://www.yfull.com/tree/R-CTS4188/ So everyone that is CTS4188 has the same common ancestor from 4,700 years ago. A person that matches you closely at 67 or 111 STR markers and has also ordered a CTS4188 test and had a positive result is extremely likely to be related to you in the past 1,000 or even 500 years even if they have a different surname.

    When cost is not an issue both a 111 STR test and a BigY test with a YFull analysis is recommended.

    To see examples of STR matches and BigY testing see the John Cleary video at https://youtu.be/O81G3No1SOY and Mike W.'s post at https://groups.yahoo.com/neo/groups/.../messages/2435

    In order for you to be seen at https://www.familytreedna.com/public...ction=yresults you would need an STR test.

    Your kit shows up in the SNP list at https://www.familytreedna.com/public...x?section=ysnp

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  9. #155
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    Nice to see SRY2627 got a 'new' brother on the Big Tree this week. It's at 15996508-A-G. An apology if this is already well known.

    Earl.

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  11. #156
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    Quote Originally Posted by Earl Davis View Post
    Nice to see SRY2627 got a 'new' brother on the Big Tree this week. It's at 15996508-A-G. An apology if this is already well known.

    Earl.
    Thanks Earl, as far as I'm aware this is the first meaningful branch SNP to be found downstream of Z262 parallel to SRY2627. Unfortunately it's turned up a couple of months too late to get into the Z198 SNP pack, but maybe the pack will find some lines which are candidates for testing this SNP on a stand alone basis.

    Gareth.

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  13. #157
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    Last edited by lg16; 04-23-2017 at 04:31 AM.

  14. #158
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    I noticed today that Dr. McDonald's dating of the various L165 clades, if accurate, places the two largest branches of L165 as being separate from each other for over 3000 years. FGC29987 branched away at 2272 B.C. and BY129 branched off at 1160 B.C. FGC29987 includes the MacLeod's and BY129 includes MacNiel, Bowie/Buie, and MacDonald. It has been assumed by quite a few people that these clans were of Viking origin, but each of these groups include French and English surnames as well. I find the very old split very interesting.

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  16. #159
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    Quote Originally Posted by Webb View Post
    Lately I have been wondering if L165 happened in the British isles. I don't know the age of it though. At first it was assumed to be Scandinavian in origin. I have poured over everything I can find on L165, and the instances of it outside the British isles, seem to me to be outliers. Just my wonderings. There is a definite sphere of DF27 in Northern Europe though.
    I agree with your outliers comment, Webb.

    I'm an L165 MacNeil but I see no reason to believe that L165 a Norse marker.

    A couple of early testers had Scandinavian surnames (Olafsson, Rasmussen, Hammer) and Jim Wilson jumped to the wild conclusion that that made L165 a Norse marker based on a tiny sample size.

    Take a look at the surnames on Alex Williamson's The Big Tree below. You'll see that there are as many English (Pridgeon, Clark, Ayton, Blinkhorn) and French surnames (Rouquier, Arcenault) as Scandinavian surnames.

    For all we know, L165 is native Hebridean. Those with Scandinavian surnames could be decendents of Hebrideans that were taken to Norway and Sweden as slaves.

    https://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=597

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  18. #160
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    Quote Originally Posted by Barraman View Post
    I agree with your outliers comment, Webb.

    I'm an L165 MacNeil but I see no reason to believe that L165 a Norse marker.

    A couple of early testers had Scandinavian surnames (Olafsson, Rasmussen, Hammer) and Jim Wilson jumped to the wild conclusion that that made L165 a Norse marker based on a tiny sample size.

    Take a look at the surnames on Alex Williamson's The Big Tree below. You'll see that there are as many English (Pridgeon, Clark, Ayton, Blinkhorn) and French surnames (Rouquier, Arcenault) as Scandinavian surnames.

    For all we know, L165 is native Hebridean. Those with Scandinavian surnames could be decendents of Hebrideans that were taken to Norway and Sweden as slaves.

    https://www.ytree.net/DisplayTree.php?blockID=597
    Thanks for the reply and welcome to the site. I am even more convinced now than when I first posted this that L165 is a marker that is not Scandinavian in origin. Again, I don't know where it first appeared, but I am sure it arrived in Scotland very early. I will link to a post I made in the DF27 Where Did it Originate thread where I did a quick break down of the L165 downstream clades using Alex's tree and dates. I did another quick analysis of the the two DF27 Douglas and Sutherland clusters in a post right after my post on L165. I really don't think it is a coincidence that we have these specific clan DF27 clades in Scotland.

    This is the post about L165:
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post623221

    This is the post about the Douglas/Sutherland clades:
    https://anthrogenica.com/showthread....l=1#post623505

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