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Thread: The Insoluble Dilemma of Commercial Haplogroup Predictors used by FTDNA/Genographic

  1. #11
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    Your reluctance is unfounded which was the point of my post. Even 23andme put you in the wrong haplogroup.
    If you send your blood sample to three different labs then you would get the same results for your blood type irrespective of who owns the lab but in this case, where the vendors (FTDNA/Geongraphic) test your DNA and claim to provide your correct haplogroup - they fall short of accuracy and quality control and this was the entire purpose of this thread. My DNA results are a living proof of it. Every time FTDNA/Genographic assignmed me a new haplogroup, I was manually able to find a discrepancy and brought to their attention and as I said " they acknowledged the error " and assigned me new one ...and even in the new one I picked another discrepancy ( basically lacking the basal SNPs). How could this be unfounded or coincidental? FTDNA/Genographic making the same mistake multiple times? I have emails from both the vendors acknowledging the discrepancy!

    I am in process of reviewing my Y DNA assigned from 23andme and already in correspondence with them. They are looking in to my case and as soon as I get an update, I will share .
    Last edited by jatt2016; 08-07-2016 at 02:29 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jatt2016 View Post
    Do you have the complete process of how it works between the two organizations? Chip is owned by Genographic but who does the lab test? and raw data compilation and how would a client know that what has gone wrong at what stage and the accountability ?

    Chip error = Geongrapic responsible
    Lab error = FTDNA responsible
    Incorrect Raw Data = who would be responsible?
    Incorrect Haplogroup assignment = is this a shared responsibility or just one party responsible?

    This needs to be clearly formulated by both parties in their own as well as client's interest.
    There was no lab error so no there isn't any blame to place.

    Incorrect Raw Data = the team assigned to review if the chip is reading the reverse strand. The responsibility for that is Geno.

    Incorrect Haplogroup assignment = Geno because they didn't inform FTDNA to not use the positions that read the reverse strand.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    There was no lab error so no there isn't any blame to place.

    Incorrect Raw Data = the team assigned to review if the chip is reading the reverse strand. The responsibility for that is Geno.

    Incorrect Haplogroup assignment = Geno because they didn't inform FTDNA to not use the positions that read the reverse strand.
    As a customer and from a client dissatisfaction perspective I blame both. Poor customer service and lack of responsibility!

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    Quote Originally Posted by jatt2016 View Post
    If you send your blood sample to three different labs then you would get the same results for your blood type irrespective of who owns the lab but in this case, where the vendors (FTDNA/Geongraphic) test your DNA and claim to provide your correct haplogroup - they fall short of accuracy and quality control and this was entire purpose of this thread. My DNA results are a living proof of it. Every time FTDNA/Genographic assignmed me a new haplogroup, I was manually able to find a discrepancy and brought to their attention and as I said " they acknowledged the error " and assigned me new one ...and even in the new one I picked another discrepancy ( basically lacking the basal SNPs). How could this me unfounded or coincidental? FTDNA/Genographic making the same mistake multiple times? I have emails from both the vendors acknowledging the discrepancy!

    I am in process of reviewing my Y DNA assigned from 23andme and already in correspondence with them. They are looking in to my case and as soon as I get an update, I will share .
    And the responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of Genographic. FTDNA even advised them that they didn't need to try a newer test

    See where is says "Why Geno 2.0 Next Gen? Bennett says he told them that but they did not accept his advice." at http://www.ancestorcentral.com/11th-...tic-genealogy/

    Bennett Greenspan is the owner of FTDNA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    And the responsibility falls squarely on the shoulders of Genographic. FTDNA even advised them that they didn't need to try a newer test

    See where is says "Why Geno 2.0 Next Gen? Bennett says he told them that but they did not accept his advice." at http://www.ancestorcentral.com/11th-...tic-genealogy/

    Bennett Greenspan is the owner of FTDNA.
    Why does not FTDNA then dissociate themselves with Geographic project?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jatt2016 View Post
    As a customer and from a client dissatisfaction perspective I blame both.
    I know. That is why I have been posting.

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    Quote Originally Posted by jatt2016 View Post
    Why does not FTDNA then dissociate themselves with Geographic project?
    They don't have to disassociate to not carry the blame. They don't sell the test, they don't own the chip, and they don't have testing that has those kind of errors.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    I know. That is why I have been posting.
    Are you posting on behalf of FTDNA or as an independent poster? Pardon my asking but are you associated with FTDNA as a volunteer or an employee. You have the right not to answer this question if you are not comfortable with it.

    Quote Originally Posted by ArmandoR1b View Post
    They don't have to disassociate to not carry the blame. They don't sell the test, they don't own the chip, and they don't have testing that has those kind of errors.
    Why not? they have an agreement with Geographic to transfer the results to their site and host the RAW data file and I am sure the agreement involves money to paid by Genographic to FTDNA for the services provided. I am speaking from a client perspective and really curious that why would FTDNA still want to be associated with this project if they know that the GENO chip has errors?

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    Quote Originally Posted by jatt2016 View Post
    Are you posting on behalf of FTDNA or as an independent poster? Pardon my asking but are you associated with FTDNA as a volunteer or an employee. You have the right not to answer this question if you are not comfortable with it.



    Why not? they have an agreement with Geographic to transfer the results to their site and host the RAW data file and I am sure the agreement involves money to paid by Genographic to FTDNA for the services provided. I am speaking from a client perspective and really curious that why would FTDNA still want to be associated with this project if they know that the GENO chip has errors?
    Not at all posting on behalf of FTDNA. I favor 23andme for the ethnicity calculator and have posted that FGC is a viable alternative to FTDNA BigY. I have also advised people to test with YFull when that is an option. All of those companies are competitors to FTDNA. I always try to be as objective as possible which is why I am placing blame where it belongs which is with Genographic.

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    I my opinion and with on going personal interaction, testing at The Genographic Project 2.0+ is no better than spinning a roulette wheel.

    Geno refuses to acknowledge any errors in it's results and FTDNA keep saying it's not our fault and the customer is left holding the bag. I blame both companies, Geno, for it's broke down chip and FTDNA for knowingly producing erratic results from said chip.

    To separate itself from this debacle, one must first openingly admit the problem exists. FTDNA should sub-contact the work out, thereby separating it's association with Geno and avoid further tainting from this matter.

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