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Thread: R1b Early Branching Phylogeny (SNP based family tree)

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    Lightbulb R1b Early Branching Phylogeny (SNP based family tree)

    Here is what the structure of the R1b tree should be, down to the level of R-M73 and R-M269.


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    Quote Originally Posted by Humata View Post
    Another nomenclature change for R1b-L23+ upstream folks is in the works, then.
    Maybe not. ISOGG currently has L278, M415, & P25 on a separate branch from M343 and I think this is wrong. If they move these SNPs up a node when they add L389, then all the R-M269 guys will have the same long-form names they currently have.

    Quote Originally Posted by Humata View Post
    Do you anticipate any more deep restructuring in R1b-M343's phylogeny in the future? Does the current data indicate anything like that such as a group of R1b-M343 (xV88,L389) individuals?
    Until FTDNA offer L389 we won't really know for sure. All the evidence I have suggests that all R-M343 men will either be R-L389 or R-V88: I don't think there are any R-M343(xV88,L389) men. If there are then they are very, very few.
    Last edited by vineviz; 08-06-2012 at 03:01 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vineviz View Post
    ...

    Until FTDNA offer L389 we won't really know for sure. All the evidence I have suggests that all R-M343 men will either be R-L389 or R-V88: I don't think there are any R-M343(xV88,L389) men. If there are then they are very, very few.
    What would be the key STRs to look at to distinguish L389 folk in absence of a test for L389?
    Thanks.

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    Quote Originally Posted by parasar View Post
    What would be the key STRs to look at to distinguish L389 folk in absence of a test for L389?
    R-L389 is quite old (TMRCA of about 16kya) which makes it hard to summarize the whole clade with even a handful of key STRs.

    There are a few markers that can help: DYS413=19,21 is usually R-L389 for example, at least in R-M343, but not all R-L389 have it and DYS454=11 is a pretty good signal too (but some R-V88 have it).

    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults

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    I believe there are about 4 kits (out of 9 total) who are probably R-V88 in the Chadic project. It seems the administrator has intentionally or accidently restricted who can view the results of his project, but there are at least 3 new kits in process as of early July. Hopefully we can see these at some point.

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    Quote Originally Posted by ADW_1981 View Post
    I believe there are about 4 kits (out of 9 total) who are probably R-V88 in the Chadic project. It seems the administrator has intentionally or accidently restricted who can view the results of his project, but there are at least 3 new kits in process as of early July. Hopefully we can see these at some point.
    It is always disappointing when DNA projects are completely invisible, but sometimes privacy concerns dictate it. We have one Chadic man and several Sudanese men in the R1b(xP297 project) but always welcome more. We can manage to make members anonymous if they wish to be.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vineviz View Post
    It is always disappointing when DNA projects are completely invisible, but sometimes privacy concerns dictate it. We have one Chadic man and several Sudanese men in the R1b(xP297 project) but always welcome more. We can manage to make members anonymous if they wish to be.
    Despite all of this, it looks like one of those new 3 kits turned out to be (highly likely ) R1b1 (prob. V88+) as that member joined the R1b public project.

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    Quote Originally Posted by vineviz View Post
    Here is what the structure of the R1b tree should be, down to the level of R-M73 and R-M269.

    Is L389 close to being added to the ISOGG tree?

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    Lightbulb R1b Early Branching Phylogeny (SNP based family tree)

    I try to keep this descendency tree graphic current. It is the Y DNA tree/phylogeny for the early branches of R1b, as best as I know it. R1b is marked by the SNP M343 so all R1b people have M343+. Please post any corrections or omissions here.




    FTDNA's haplotree is behind so for source data for the graphic I use International Society of Genetic Genealogy's (ISOGG) Y hapgroup R tree at
    http://isogg.org/tree/ISOGG_HapgrpR.html

    I supplement that with data and new news from the following projects.

    R1b1 Asterisk (M343+ P297-) [V88 people are in this]
    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults

    R1b-ht35(M269+ P312- U106-) [L23* people are in this along with L51*, L11* and a few M269*]
    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults

    R1b-M73
    http://www.familytreedna.com/public/...ction=yresults

    I generally defer to the project administrators of these projects as far as SNP status at the individual level. Some of the SNP testing for these people was done at non-FTDNA testing companies so their Y DNA SNP reports may not be entirely accurate.
    Last edited by TigerMW; 04-18-2013 at 11:10 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Mikewww View Post
    I try to keep this descendency tree graphic current. It is the Y DNA tree/phylogeny for the early branches of R1b, as best as I know it. R1b is marked by the SNP M343 so all R1b people have M343+. Please post any corrections or omissions here.
    Thanks for the R1b phylogeny. I was wondering if there are any similar chart's except with roughly calculated dates added from your data and Mjost calculations for all the branches?

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