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Thread: "Virtual Autosomal Haplogroup"

  1. #1
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    "Virtual Autosomal Haplogroup"

    It's struck a lot of us, I am sure, that our actual haplogroups -- while important to us, clearly -- are not necessarily most emblematic of the sum total of our ancestry.

    Therefore I undertook a little exercise in statistics, constructing "virtual" haplogroups based on the most frequently occurring Y and mtDNA of Relative Finder cousins. This is quite easy since you can download your RF results as a spreadsheet. (If I had more time, I would compare these to expected frequencies of ancestral populations, but that will have to wait for another time.)

    PATERNAL GRANDFATHER (about 2,000 cousins)
    yDNA J1e "virtual," actual R1a-CTS6
    mtDNA K1a1b1a "virtual," actual H6a1a

    MOTHER (about 1,400 cousins)
    yDNA R1b-L21 "virtual," actual (father's) R1b-L48
    mtDNA T2b "virtual," actual H11a2a3

    The virtual haplogroups seem at least as emblematic of their known ancestries as their actual ones, but unfortunately this system will work a lot better if you're sharing with a fair number of relatives, and won't work as well if you have multiple origins which are not equally well represented in the database. Still, another way to look at your ancestry.

    Feel free to post your results here and comment on how accurate you think they are!
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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  3. #2
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    Very interesting AJL. I was thinking about this some weeks ago when collating my RF results on the forum. I noticed some of the results didn't jibe very precisely with what is currently known about Iran's haplogroup distribution. How did you calculate the virtual haplogroups?

  4. #3
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    I just downloaded the spreadsheet, sorted by haplogroup, and tallied each haplogroup occurrence with a simple formula {EDIT} then picked the most common one.
    Last edited by AJL; 04-19-2013 at 02:30 AM.
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

  5. #4
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    My results based on (far) fewer relatives than yours:

    "Virtual" mtDNA = T2g (3)
    "Virtual Y-DNA = E1b1b1a2* (5)

    As you stated, it's a direct function of the number of relatives one has. Let's see if this changes in the future.

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  7. #5
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    Hm, I think you need more cousins!
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

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  9. #6
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    Interesting idea. I have 1014 RF cousins, 529 of whom are male. The list actually includes my brother and my father, so subtracting for them leaves 527.

    I was a bit surprised to see that the greatest number of these are in R1b1b2a1a2f* -- 85. Of course, it doesn't automatically follow that I'm connected to any of these via one of their Y-line ancestors. Still 85 of 527 is a decent-sized portion.

    From what I can gather, this seems to have somewhat of a Scottish and Northern Irish association. Only about a quarter of my ancestry should be British according to my paper trail -- although this should indeed be mostly Scots and Scots-Irish, and it is possible the more of my "missing leaves" have Scottish roots than I have assumed.

    I'll try the same exercise with my brother and my father later on, and see what I come up with.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

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  11. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by geebee View Post
    I was a bit surprised to see that the greatest number of these are in R1b1b2a1a2f* -- 85. Of course, it doesn't automatically follow that I'm connected to any of these via one of their Y-line ancestors. Still 85 of 527 is a decent-sized portion.

    From what I can gather, this seems to have somewhat of a Scottish and Northern Irish association. Only about a quarter of my ancestry should be British according to my paper trail -- although this should indeed be mostly Scots and Scots-Irish, and it is possible the more of my "missing leaves" have Scottish roots than I have assumed.
    Yes, that's R-L21, same as my mother gets. R-L21 is fairly common in France, England, and parts of Germany/Scandinavia too. The Scottish/Irish association sounds more like R-M222, a subclade of R-L21 (that's given at 23andme as R1b1b2a1a2f2).

    Of course there are now a number of other subclades of R-L21 and if 23andme actually kept up with the various Y subclades, other haplogroups might be in the lead.

    It's also worth noting that the database composition is probably quite high in L21 simply because that's probably the most common haplogroup, at the level tested by 23andme, in the US now because of its heavy distribution in the Isles. For this reason it's perhaps a better indicator of American ancestry than of Isles ancestry.
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

  12. #8
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    ^^Makes sense. My total for R1b1b2a1a2f2 is quite a bit lower, just 12.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

  13. #9
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    My mother has 43 "R1b1b2a1a2f2" which makes sense given that a fair proportion of her ancestry hails from the right area (e.g. Islay, counties Antrim, Down, and Tyrone, etc.).
     

    Other ancestral Y lines:

    E1b-M81 Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    E1b-V13 England
    I1-M253 Ireland
    I2-M423 Ukraine
    R1a-L176.1 Scotland
    R1b-L584 Syria/Turkey (Sephardi)
    R1b-L20 Ireland
    R1b-L21 (1)England; (2)Wales?>Connecticut
    R1b-L48 England
    R1b-P312 Scotland
    R1b-FGC32576 Ireland

    Other ancestral mtDNA lines:

    H1b2a Ukraine (Ashkenazi)
    H6a1a3 Ukraine
    K1a9 Belarus (Ashkenazi)
    K1c2 Ireland
    V7a Ukraine

  14. #10
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    I think the most recent two of my Scottish-originated names are Keith and Gregg. Gregg is a variation of Greig, which is a sept of Clan Macgregor (so I'm told).

    Most of my other British names are rather generic -- White, Smith, Mills, Brooks, etc.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

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