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Thread: J1 subclade?

  1. #1
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    J1 subclade?

    I have been tested from 23andme and found that I belong to the J1 Haplo, with no further explanations on my subclade. I run the ISOGG predictor (2016) and looks like my downstream positive matches stop really early, on M267/PF4782, with no further green matches. Plus, there are many negative matches downstream, such as the major group P58 (P56 as well, plus and other various subclades etc).

    Since I am new in genetics, does that mean that maymy haplo didnt take any mutations from M267/PF4782 on, and so this is my terminal subbranch (J1)? Is this possible? Further more, the fact that I scored negative on P58 excludes 100% all the dowstream subclades so mine - in case the PF4782 is not the terminal, should be searched upstream (not many canditates left). And how can I be 100% sure about my terminal clade?

    Every response is well appreciated!

    Regards!

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    You may belong to a branch of J1 which I partially mapped at https://drive.google.com/open?id=16J...0M&usp=sharing

    It includes one Anatolian Greek (Moshidis).

    There is an experimental J1 tree built using Family Tree DNA BigY SNP test results at http://genogenea.com/J-M267/tree

    You can see Moshidis at the bottom of the tree. Search the page for 164954.

    This is state-of-the-art research, and complicated, so I'll pause here and wait for your questions.

    BTW, I belong to a related branch, not the same one as Moshidis.

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    With less certainty, I know of four Anatolian Greek cases which appear to belong to this branch of J1, but they have not tested in enough detail to be sure. https://drive.google.com/open?id=1OF...g0&usp=sharing

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    Thanks a lot for the replies, well appreciated.

    Is anything I can do (search on my SNPs at my raw data for example) and may possibly get a match?

    These subbranches you proposed (I think they're the same subclade?) are located where on the tree? I saw the first and looked like quite upstream. That goes according to the ISOGG calc that I run and shows no match with the vast P58 subbranch, right?

    Thanks a lot in advance and sorry if I sound a bit amateur, in fact I am 😃

  5. #5
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    Well, took a more close look.

    Both L1189 and Z1842 look strong candidates (especially the 2nd, considering the maps).

    The question stands: is there anything I can do further?

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    So far as I know, 23andMe does not test any of the SNPs that would interest you. But I'm not familiar with that ISOGG tool you mentioned. There might be something useful on that page http://isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_tools

    If you want to know where you are on the experimental tree http://genogenea.com/J-M267/tree and how distant in time you are from the other cases, you would have to test with FTDNA's BigY. I believe that's an add-on to any of the Y-DNA STR tests.

    Edit: At a very minimum, the most basic FTDNA Y-DNA test at $169 would give you results including DYS459. If you get DYS459b=10, you could be almost certain that you belong to J1 L1189 with no further testing. If you get DYS459b=9, you could assume you belong to J1 Z1842.

    If you want to know where you are on the experimental tree but not how distant in time you are from the other cases, and without actually seeing your results in the tree, then your option is the cheaper FTDNA Y-STR test plus the add-on J-M267 Pack.

    You are correct, you are not far down the tree. You are also a case from near the homeland of J1. Your branch will turn out to be far older than any ethnicity in the region. Your "cousins" will be Assyrian Christians, Armenians, and peoples of the Caucasus if you belong to the Z1842 branch. Your "cousins" will be Europeans if you belong to the L1189 branch.

    Let me know if the surnames Moshidis, Kountouris, Chatzidis, Sidiropoulos, or Sopoulos have any connection to you.
    Last edited by J1 DYS388=13; 07-01-2016 at 10:17 AM.

  7. #7
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    Quote Originally Posted by J1 DYS388=13 View Post
    So far as I know, 23andMe does not test any of the SNPs that would interest you. But I'm not familiar with that ISOGG tool you mentioned. There might be something useful on that page http://isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_tools

    If you want to know where you are on the experimental tree http://genogenea.com/J-M267/tree and how distant in time you are from the other cases, you would have to test with FTDNA's BigY. I believe that's an add-on to any of the Y-DNA STR tests.

    Edit: At a very minimum, the most basic FTDNA Y-DNA test at $169 would give you results including DYS459. If you get DYS459b=10, you could be almost certain that you belong to J1 L1189 with no further testing. If you get DYS459b=9, you could assume you belong to J1 Z1842.

    If you want to know where you are on the experimental tree but not how distant in time you are from the other cases, and without actually seeing your results in the tree, then your option is the cheaper FTDNA Y-STR test plus the add-on J-M267 Pack.

    You are correct, you are not far down the tree. You are also a case from near the homeland of J1. Your branch will turn out to be far older than any ethnicity in the region. Your "cousins" will be Assyrian Christians, Armenians, and peoples of the Caucasus if you belong to the Z1842 branch. Your "cousins" will be Europeans if you belong to the L1189 branch.

    Let me know if the surnames Moshidis, Kountouris, Chatzidis, Sidiropoulos, or Sopoulos have any connection to you.
    Thanks a lot for the veru useful info!

    I would take it in consideration and will see with what exactly I'll go forward in this search.

    As for the surnames mentioned, the only one that look familiar is the surname Sidiropoulos, which is my first match on 23andme relative finder and appears to be my 2nd cousin! I share a lot with her (surname is not maiden name and her husband also comes from the same region like me, she does too). They are a big family who currently reside in the US.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by J1 DYS388=13 View Post
    But I'm not familiar with that ISOGG tool you mentioned. There might be something useful on that page http://isogg.org/wiki/Y-DNA_tools
    AS for the ISOGG tree, you first have to upload your data there and then by going to that page, you select the capital letter of your haplo (J in this situation) and then run the calc. It will point out with green the matches and will deny but pointing red the SNPs that were tested but not matched.

    My matches stop early, on M267/PF4782, but I have several negative results, such as P58, P56 etc...
    Last edited by Sakattack; 07-01-2016 at 04:25 PM.

  9. #9
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    Sidiropoulos himself (www.ysearch.org case 5RKTV ) hasn't tested in enough detail to tell which of the branches he belongs to. But Trabzon is in J1 Z1842 country.

  10. #10
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    Seems that Z1842 is the most possible outcome for me, taking all these factors in consideration.

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