Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast
Results 11 to 20 of 33

Thread: Why do J1's always desperately try to deny possible arabian ancestry

  1. #11
    Registered Users
    Posts
    559
    Sex
    Location
    England
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1
    mtDNA (M)
    K1a10a

    United States of America England
    "I just find that it seems to come off from a side of racism and I don't think that objective people should be engaging in such thoughts.. one has to face the facts."

    Then challenge a post when you see one.

    I can't tell you any more except that people on this tree who are not on the P58 branch go down a blind alley when they look for Arab ancestry.
    http://genogenea.com/J-M267/tree

  2. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to J1 DYS388=13 For This Useful Post:

     Awale (08-12-2016),  parasar (08-12-2016)

  3. #12
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,784
    Sex
    Location
    Australia
    Ethnicity
    Italian Alpine
    Nationality
    Australian and Italian
    Y-DNA (P)
    T1a2b- SK1480
    mtDNA (M)
    H95a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-S8172
    mtDNA (P)
    T2b17

    Australia Italy Veneto Friuli Italy Trentino Alto Adige Italy Ladinia Austria Tirol
    Quote Originally Posted by J1 DYS388=13 View Post
    "I just find that it seems to come off from a side of racism and I don't think that objective people should be engaging in such thoughts.. one has to face the facts."

    Then challenge a post when you see one.

    I can't tell you any more except that people on this tree who are not on the P58 branch go down a blind alley when they look for Arab ancestry.
    http://genogenea.com/J-M267/tree
    Many Scholars state that being an Arab is only due to linguistics.....ie, the Arabic language and not due to a populace , similar to the terms Slavic or Celtic


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-Y33791 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

  4. The Following User Says Thank You to vettor For This Useful Post:

     Amerijoe (08-11-2016)

  5. #13
    Registered Users
    Posts
    5,784
    Sex
    Location
    Australia
    Ethnicity
    Italian Alpine
    Nationality
    Australian and Italian
    Y-DNA (P)
    T1a2b- SK1480
    mtDNA (M)
    H95a
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-S8172
    mtDNA (P)
    T2b17

    Australia Italy Veneto Friuli Italy Trentino Alto Adige Italy Ladinia Austria Tirol
    Quote Originally Posted by RCO View Post
    No haplogroup is only associated with one nationality, ethnicity, language or religion. If you go to YFull J1 tree https://www.yfull.com/tree/J1/ you will find completely different J1 groups in different regions, with different SNPs and different histories. Observe that the most basal J1 clades in the J1 tree are not Arabs or Semitics, represented mostly in some recent Southern Middle Eastern subset of derived branches.
    Yfull has the TMRCA of the populace of the Arabian Peninsula as .............the oldest being 1100BC
    Take the TMRCA starting year of 1950AD

    South-Asia, Europe, caucasus are far more older .............so I agree

    Looks like J1 entered the peninsula via QAT people


    My Path = ( K-M9+, TL-P326+, T-M184+, L490+, M70+, PF5664+, L131+, L446+, CTS933+, CTS3767+, CTS8862+, Z19945+, BY143483+ )


    Grandfather via paternal grandmother = I1-Y33791 ydna
    Great grandmother paternal side = T1a1e mtdna

  6. The Following User Says Thank You to vettor For This Useful Post:

     Amerijoe (08-11-2016)

  7. #14
    J Man
    Guest
    Maybe because many of the J1 people in the world today such as many Jews and Dagestanis actually do not descend from Arabs.
    Last edited by J Man; 08-11-2016 at 09:33 PM.

  8. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to J Man For This Useful Post:

     Awale (08-12-2016),  Viktor Reznov (08-22-2016)

  9. #15
    Banned
    Posts
    246
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Shaybani Arab fr. Anatol.
    Nationality
    Sunni Shafi'i
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1b-L389 > V1636
    mtDNA (M)
    H

    Turkey Ottoman Empire 2 Jabal Shammar Ayyubid Dynasty Saudi Arabia
    How glad I would be if I were from J1.. I am R1b and this doesnt fit with my Arab identity.. But this is genetics.. You cant change it.

  10. The Following 2 Users Say Thank You to raspberry For This Useful Post:

     Dr_McNinja (08-11-2016),  parasar (08-12-2016)

  11. #16
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    4,435
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Jewish & British
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1-Z18271
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c5
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-U152
    mtDNA (P)
    U7a5

    Israel Israel Jerusalem United Kingdom England Scotland Isle of Man
    ^^And I very much would've loved being E-M34 despite my Kohen/priestly background which predisposed me to be J1 (something I didn't really take seriously before receiving my results, reality knocked some sense into me so to speak)... Like you said, this is genetics, this cannot be changed as this is part and parcel of what you are, you must learn to cope with this, in time you will grow accustomed if not fascinated and intrigued by your paternal lineage.

    Mod: Some J1 folks out there reject Arabian ancestry simply because they have no such ancestry, they are often proven right when they find where their lineage fits under J1 (which is every bit as old and diverse as R1b), those who are proven wrong (not exactly rare either) by their results deny it out of sheer shock or simply because they are unreasonable in which case I'd rather not dwell on this (arguing with reasonable people is hard enough). Either way, I do not like where this thread is headed, this is why I might be closing it if this discussion devolves into something completely ludicrous, so by all means, keep things civil. Thank you.
    Last edited by Agamemnon; 08-11-2016 at 09:23 PM.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

  12. The Following 10 Users Say Thank You to Agamemnon For This Useful Post:

     Abd.H (08-12-2016),  Amerijoe (08-11-2016),  Asimakidis (08-12-2016),  Awale (08-12-2016),  Bas (08-12-2016),  Dr_McNinja (08-11-2016),  lifeisdandy (08-12-2016),  RCO (08-11-2016),  vettor (08-12-2016),  Viktor Reznov (08-22-2016)

  13. #17
    Registered Users
    Posts
    314
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Syrian
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1-ZS3114-B234
    mtDNA (M)
    K1a

    Quote Originally Posted by raspberry View Post
    How glad I would be if I were from J1.. I am R1b and this doesnt fit with my Arab identity.. But this is genetics.. You cant change it.
    In the Arabian communities most of haplogroups are represented .
    you have R1b and probably your subclade exists among Arabs more than my subclade ,even I am J1 ,because my subclade is mostly Caucasusian , And till now I am the only Arab whose result is J-ZS3089
    Last edited by Abd.H; 08-12-2016 at 01:12 AM.

  14. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Abd.H For This Useful Post:

     Agamemnon (08-12-2016),  Awale (08-12-2016),  Megalophias (08-12-2016),  parasar (08-12-2016),  raspberry (08-12-2016)

  15. #18
    Banned
    Posts
    4,169
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    N/A
    Nationality
    N/A
    Y-DNA (P)
    I2a1-L621- PH 908
    mtDNA (M)
    H 47

    Surely J1 far pre-dates the formation of distinct Arab tribes. The Mesolithic Karelian sample which was J1 had probably little to do with Arabs. In fact, given the demography of the Peninsula, J1 is most likely a (relatively) recent founder effect there. (?)

    It seems "Arabs" were the desert tribes first referred to in Assyrian texts, whose name spread later over other Semitic & Semticized peoples of the Middle East (eg with Islamic conquests).

    Here is a good overview "The origin of Arabs: Middle Eastern ethnicity and myth-making"
    Peter Webb
    Last edited by Gravetto-Danubian; 08-12-2016 at 01:33 AM.

  16. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to Gravetto-Danubian For This Useful Post:

     Asimakidis (08-12-2016),  Awale (08-12-2016),  Bas (08-12-2016),  parasar (08-12-2016),  vettor (08-12-2016)

  17. #19
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    4,435
    Sex
    Ethnicity
    Jewish & British
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1-Z18271
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c5
    Y-DNA (M)
    R1b-U152
    mtDNA (P)
    U7a5

    Israel Israel Jerusalem United Kingdom England Scotland Isle of Man
    I think the complexity of J1's history in the Arabian peninsula is often downplayed, while I agree much of the J1 there is due to the successive expansions of Semitic speakers and, most notably, Arabic speakers, J1 is also deep-rooted in the area.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

  18. The Following 3 Users Say Thank You to Agamemnon For This Useful Post:

     Awale (08-12-2016),  Gravetto-Danubian (08-12-2016),  lifeisdandy (08-12-2016)

  19. #20
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
    8,162

    Quote Originally Posted by lifeisdandy View Post
    Why do J1's always desperately try to deny possible arabian ancestry? It's like the bane of life to potentially be descended from arabians and as far as I can tell..a lot of people try to distance themselves as much as possible from it even if it's the most likely scenario..
    J1 is just too old to be called Arabian.

    But I would see your point if folk discount recent Arab ancestry. In South Asia and Arabia you often see the other side. Many Syeds are disappointed if not J1, or not even J. Similarly for a long time Arab R1a1s used to refuse to disclose their names. It is after holder of the Kaaba's key, with pedigree dating to the Prophet's period, tested R1a-L657 that Arab R1a folk felt more comfortable disclosing their names.

  20. The Following 5 Users Say Thank You to parasar For This Useful Post:

     Awale (08-12-2016),  lifeisdandy (08-12-2016),  Megalophias (08-12-2016),  vettor (08-12-2016),  Viktor Reznov (08-22-2016)

Page 2 of 4 FirstFirst 1234 LastLast

Similar Threads

  1. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 12-06-2019, 10:21 PM
  2. Arabian IAC
    By Missouri1455 in forum Autosomal (auDNA)
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 03-12-2019, 01:48 PM
  3. Replies: 3
    Last Post: 05-29-2018, 11:30 AM
  4. Replies: 16
    Last Post: 07-23-2017, 04:56 AM
  5. G2a-P15 in Arabian peninsula
    By Mustache in forum G2a-P15
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: 07-21-2016, 06:07 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •