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Thread: DNA reply from a "Mayflower" lineage society

  1. #21
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pegasusphm1 View Post
    Mayflower and colonial period are very well documented. If one can establish their family genealogy tree, combined with DNA. Its really a no brainier. Mayflower is a great case study for science.
    While the earliest generations of Mayflower families have been very well studied, their are still gaps and unknowns (especially with daughters). As you stated earlier, DNA testing is a tool, and it may be possible to use this tool to help fill in some of these gaps.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rms2 View Post
    Believe it or not, I could get into the Mayflower Society if I wanted to without too much difficulty, because a number of my relatives (mainly female) belonged and have already done the heavy paperwork lifting. I have a male second cousin who is a member, and he got in based on the work of those old ladies. For some odd reason, it's just not something I care that much about. I guess I am like those Europeans who don't care to be dna tested: they know where they are from and where their ancestors were from, so genetic genealogy holds little attraction for them. Similarly, pretty much all my life I have known about my descent from Myles Standish and the rest, so I kind of take it for granted and don't feel the need for the official approval of the Mayflower Society.

    My Mayflower ancestry comes via my second great grandmother, Olive Augusta Washburn. Her Washburn family were New England Puritans and intermarried with many of the old Mayflower families.
    We're related through John Washburn (Jr) and Elizabeth Mitchell. My GGGG Grandfather Ezra Washburn (b. 1745) is 3 generations removed from both their sons Samuel Washburn & Joseph Washburn (almost too close for comfort!) on either side. You're descendant from James one of John and Elizabeth's other sons.

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    I still haven't given up on the idea that my direct maternal line stems from early Massachusetts. But as was pointed out above, daughters are harder to trace. I just bumped into a distant match at Ancestry that has Makepeace and Hathaway in her list of ancestors. So I added that to my Ann Johnson research tree. But I still can't connect to my maternal line. My Ann Johnson tree is based on HVR1 & HVR1+HVR2 matches at the now defunct SMGF Sorensen Lab. This latest match gets as far as New Jersey and New York. So at least it shows they all weren't stuck in MA.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Grossvater View Post
    I'm a Mayflower descendant from Stephen Hopkins but I've never joined any genealogy societies. What are the benefits? Is it just for the bragging rights?
    You probably know that Stephen Hopkins was from Wortley, Wotton-Under-Edge, Gloucestershire. My wife is from (Born 1949) W-U-E and after our marriage I lived there from 1968 until 2004, when we moved to Wales.

    The link is about Stephen:-

    http://www.connectedbloodlines.com/g...11&tree=lowell

    .

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    Quote Originally Posted by astondive View Post
    You probably know that Stephen Hopkins was from Wortley, Wotton-Under-Edge, Gloucestershire. My wife is from (Born 1949) W-U-E and after our marriage I lived there from 1968 until 2004, when we moved to Wales.

    The link is about Stephen:-

    http://www.connectedbloodlines.com/g...11&tree=lowell

    .
    Thank you for mentioning Wortley, Wotton-Under-Edge. I haven't given it much thought but since you brought it up, I decided to see what it looked like and so did a Google image search. It appears to be a very charming and pretty village. If I ever get over to England, I'll have to go there and have a look around.

    The link you sent has some information that modern scholarship seems to have proven inaccurate. Constance Dudley is no long considered to be Stephen Hopkins' first wife. From Wikipedia:

    "The following is based on the extensive research of author Simon Neal:

    Stephen Hopkins' spouses:

    Mary Kent is believed to be the first wife of Stephen Hopkins, born in Ratlake, Hampshire, in about 1580, the daughter of Robert and Joan Kent. Robert's father may have been named Andrew Kent. Joan's maiden name was probably Machill, or a variation thereof such as Machell, based on documents of the time. Research indicates Joan's parents' names were sometimes given as Robert and Joan Machell and that she (Joan the younger) had a brother Giles and sister Elizabeth. Giles and Elizabeth also appear as the names of two of Mary's children.[12][13]:58

    Per Neal, the Machell and Kent families may have been able to trace their ancestries back to ancient times when they first appeared at the manor (then castle) of Merdon in Hursley parish, which could have been as early as the 13th century.[12]On 20 November 1558, per the bequests of the will of Thomas Backe of the parish of Hursley, Robert Machyll (Machill) is cited as being an Overseer, Witness and one of those who had taken his estate inventory on 2 December 1558. Robert Machill was the father of Joan Kent and grandfather of Mary Kent, wife of Stephen Hopkins.[13]:59Robert Machell, father of Joan Kent, appears in court records for the manor of Merdon, Hursley, Hants., on 26 October 1559.[12]:131,137On 28 April 1560 Robert Machyll (Machill) is recorded in the Hampshire Record Office as being involved, with two others, in the estate inventory of Margaret Backe, late the wife of Andrew Backe of the parish of Hursley.[12]:53The will of Robert Machell of Hursley, Hants., per the Hampshire Record Office. Will date: 24 January 1575, proved 25 April 1575. Persons mentioned in the will were Joan (wife), Giles (son), and Elizabeth and Joan (the younger) (daughters). Joan (the younger) would later be the mother of Mary Kent.[12]Documents for the 1588 rental of the manor of Merdon at Hursley, Hants. lists Robert Kent, father of Mary Kent, renting at Ratlake for 5s a sum total of 46 acres (19 ha) consisting of house, orchard, garden yard, etc.[13]:60Mary's father, Robert Kent, died when she was young, leaving her mother Joan a widow. Mary's ancestry is difficult to research, but author Simon Neal determined that she had originally come from the Hursley area. No marriage record has been found for Mary and Stephen who had three children together between probably 1603 and 1608 Elizabeth, the eldest, Constance, and Giles. The baptism records for the three children have been located in the parish registers of Hursley, Hampshire. It is known that after their marriage around 1602 or before, Mary and Stephen resided with her mother Joan where they ran a small alehouse. Stephen departed for America in 1609, with his children being left in the care of his wife Mary and her mother Joan. In 1620 Stephen, his second wife Elizabeth and children Giles and Constance were Mayflower passengers.[12]:126-127,138Manorial court documents relating to the manor of Merdon list the following court date and charge: 3 Sept. 3 James I (1605): Alehouse keepers Joan Kent (and two others named) are charged with being common tipplers and have broken the assize of bread and ale. Therefore each of them is in mercy (fined) 4 pence. Joan Kent was the mother of Mary Kent, wife of Stephen Hopkins.[13]:62Joan Machill's brother Giles was named in the manorial court for the manor of Merdon, Hursley, Hampshire, for a minor offense with a date of 3 October 1611. At the time Giles Machill was recorded as innkeeper of the Star and his sister Joan Kent was the alehouse keeper.[13]:64In 1611 Joan died at about age 50, leaving the three Hopkins children in Mary's care.

    Mary died in 1613, at about age 33, with her burial entry appearing in parish registers on 9 May 1613 where she is described as the wife of Stephen Hopkins. Her inventory and administration were held on 12 May 1613 where it was noted she was the mother of Elizabeth, Giles and Constance and that she was a widow although at the time Stephen Hopkins was very much alive in Virginia. This may have been an error since apparently some monies from his employment at Jamestown did reach his wife and she may have known he was alive. In 1614 Hopkins received a letter at Jamestown informing him of his wife's death and shortly thereafter came back to England to care for his orphaned children.[12]:126 [4]:164,165Per author Neal, the Kent family continued its line through Giles Kent, Mary's probable brother, and continued to flourish in Hursley throughout the 17th century.[12]:138"
    Last edited by Grossvater; 08-31-2017 at 09:25 PM.

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  8. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grossvater View Post
    Thank you for mentioning Wortley, Wotton-Under-Edge. I haven't given it much thought but since you brought it up, I decided to see what it looked like and so did a Google image search. It appears to be a very charming and pretty village. If I ever get over to England, I'll have to go there and have a look around.

    The link you sent has some information that modern scholarship seems to have proven inaccurate. Constance Dudley is no long considered to be Stephen Hopkins' first wife. From Wikipedia:

    "The following is based on the extensive research of author Simon Neal:

    Stephen Hopkins' spouses:

    Mary Kent is believed to be the first wife of Stephen Hopkins, born in Ratlake, Hampshire, in about 1580, the daughter of Robert and Joan Kent. Robert's father may have been named Andrew Kent. Joan's maiden name was probably Machill, or a variation thereof such as Machell, based on documents of the time. Research indicates Joan's parents' names were sometimes given as Robert and Joan Machell and that she (Joan the younger) had a brother Giles and sister Elizabeth. Giles and Elizabeth also appear as the names of two of Mary's children.[12][13]:58

    Per Neal, the Machell and Kent families may have been able to trace their ancestries back to ancient times when they first appeared at the manor (then castle) of Merdon in Hursley parish, which could have been as early as the 13th century.[12]On 20 November 1558, per the bequests of the will of Thomas Backe of the parish of Hursley, Robert Machyll (Machill) is cited as being an Overseer, Witness and one of those who had taken his estate inventory on 2 December 1558. Robert Machill was the father of Joan Kent and grandfather of Mary Kent, wife of Stephen Hopkins.[13]:59Robert Machell, father of Joan Kent, appears in court records for the manor of Merdon, Hursley, Hants., on 26 October 1559.[12]:131,137On 28 April 1560 Robert Machyll (Machill) is recorded in the Hampshire Record Office as being involved, with two others, in the estate inventory of Margaret Backe, late the wife of Andrew Backe of the parish of Hursley.[12]:53The will of Robert Machell of Hursley, Hants., per the Hampshire Record Office. Will date: 24 January 1575, proved 25 April 1575. Persons mentioned in the will were Joan (wife), Giles (son), and Elizabeth and Joan (the younger) (daughters). Joan (the younger) would later be the mother of Mary Kent.[12]Documents for the 1588 rental of the manor of Merdon at Hursley, Hants. lists Robert Kent, father of Mary Kent, renting at Ratlake for 5s a sum total of 46 acres (19 ha) consisting of house, orchard, garden yard, etc.[13]:60Mary's father, Robert Kent, died when she was young, leaving her mother Joan a widow. Mary's ancestry is difficult to research, but author Simon Neal determined that she had originally come from the Hursley area. No marriage record has been found for Mary and Stephen who had three children together between probably 1603 and 1608 – Elizabeth, the eldest, Constance, and Giles. The baptism records for the three children have been located in the parish registers of Hursley, Hampshire. It is known that after their marriage around 1602 or before, Mary and Stephen resided with her mother Joan where they ran a small alehouse. Stephen departed for America in 1609, with his children being left in the care of his wife Mary and her mother Joan. In 1620 Stephen, his second wife Elizabeth and children Giles and Constance were Mayflower passengers.[12]:126-127,138Manorial court documents relating to the manor of Merdon list the following court date and charge: 3 Sept. 3 James I (1605): Alehouse keepers – Joan Kent (and two others named) are charged with being common tipplers and have broken the assize of bread and ale. Therefore each of them is in mercy (fined) 4 pence. Joan Kent was the mother of Mary Kent, wife of Stephen Hopkins.[13]:62Joan Machill's brother Giles was named in the manorial court for the manor of Merdon, Hursley, Hampshire, for a minor offense with a date of 3 October 1611. At the time Giles Machill was recorded as innkeeper of the Star and his sister Joan Kent was the alehouse keeper.[13]:64In 1611 Joan died at about age 50, leaving the three Hopkins children in Mary's care.

    Mary died in 1613, at about age 33, with her burial entry appearing in parish registers on 9 May 1613 where she is described as the wife of Stephen Hopkins. Her inventory and administration were held on 12 May 1613 where it was noted she was the mother of Elizabeth, Giles and Constance and that she was a widow although at the time Stephen Hopkins was very much alive in Virginia. This may have been an error since apparently some monies from his employment at Jamestown did reach his wife and she may have known he was alive. In 1614 Hopkins received a letter at Jamestown informing him of his wife's death and shortly thereafter came back to England to care for his orphaned children.[12]:126 [4]:164,165Per author Neal, the Kent family continued its line through Giles Kent, Mary's probable brother, and continued to flourish in Hursley throughout the 17th century.[12]:138"
    I hope you get the chance to visit Wotton as it's a very interesting place. I post a few links that may interest you:-

    The White Star Line, Titanic. http://www.gloucestershirepubs.co.uk...hp?pubid1=1090

    Sir Isaac Pitman, https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Isaac_Pitman (He lived in Orchard Street W-U-E there's a plaque on the house)

    The Ram Inn. http://www.bbc.co.uk/gloucestershire...4/10/ram.shtml

    My wife tells me there are some Hopkins living in Wotton but we don't know if they are any thing to do with Stephen. Hopkins is quite a common name in the UK.

    http://www.britishphonebook.com/sear...TON-UNDER-EDGE


    My wife and I got married in the church St Mary the Virgin, Wotton-under-Edge which has a famous organ.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/St_Mar...ton-under-Edge

    "The church is perhaps best known for its large organ. Positioned in the south-east corner of the church, adjacent to the altar; it is one of the biggest organs in the county and is famed for having been played by Georg Handel when in its previous location of St. Martin in the Fields.[1][2]
    The organ was presented to St. Martin in the Fields by King George I[2] It possesses a large range of stops over three manuals and a pedalboard, including two trumpets, six diapasons, a cornopean, and a flute"

    The organ was purchased from St Martens in the Fields. Here's the good bit some of my ancestors were married and Christened in St Martens in the Fields, so the organ would have been played at their marriages and in 1968 it was played at ours.
    Last edited by astondive; 09-01-2017 at 06:07 PM.

  9. #27
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    Thanks for sharing the links about Wotton-under-edge. That is pretty cool about the St. Martin-in-the-Fields organ, your ancestors and being married with the sound of the organ they would have heard. Not too many people today can claim that! And the organ was played by George Frederick Handel! In my town, we get excited about buildings that were built in the 1860s!

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  11. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by Grossvater View Post
    Tn my town, we get excited about buildings that were built in the 1860s!
    As we say in Georgia (USA), if Sherman did not get them, the termites did.

    Jack

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