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Thread: Why do people of Western European descent contrast k13 and k15 results ?

  1. #11
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    Y-DNA (P)
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    T2b3b

    Acadia
    Its quite accurate for me at least since it equalizes a good majority of my ancestry roughly being 75% Irish/West Scottish and 25% Québécois (Southern) French with "Southwestern English" being an intermediate proxy in order to statistically equalize itself between the two ancestries.

    K13:
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 50.64
    2 Baltic 19.98
    3 West_Med 15.56
    4 West_Asian 5.99
    5 East_Med 4.30
    6 Amerindian 1.20
    7 South_Asian 1.05


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Southwest_English @ 3.407994
    2 Southeast_English @ 4.217672
    3 Orcadian @ 5.901970
    4 West_Scottish @ 5.969299
    5 Irish @ 6.120823
    6 South_Dutch @ 7.273860
    7 North_Dutch @ 8.018476
    8 Danish @ 8.558052
    9 West_German @ 9.079944
    10 North_German @ 9.808658
    11 Norwegian @ 10.718083
    12 French @ 11.308474
    13 Swedish @ 13.393653
    14 Austrian @ 17.256966
    15 East_German @ 18.229393
    16 Spanish_Cataluna @ 18.459242
    17 Southwest_French @ 19.443167
    18 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 19.708508
    19 Spanish_Cantabria @ 19.868811
    20 North_Swedish @ 19.999855

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Southwest_English +50% Southwest_English @ 3.407994


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Irish +25% Spanish_Cataluna +25% West_Scottish @ 1.575413


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Irish + Spanish_Cataluna + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.497935
    2 Spanish_Cataluna + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.524484
    3 Irish + Irish + Spanish_Cataluna + West_Scottish @ 1.575413
    4 Irish + Irish + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + West_Scottish @ 1.588596
    5 Irish + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.597002
    6 Irish + Irish + Irish + Spanish_Aragon @ 1.656776
    7 Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.660425
    8 Irish + Irish + Spanish_Murcia + West_Scottish @ 1.718322
    9 Irish + Irish + Irish + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 1.728282
    10 Irish + Irish + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish @ 1.731804
    11 Irish + Spanish_Murcia + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.735644
    12 Irish + Irish + Irish + Spanish_Cataluna @ 1.741105
    13 Irish + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.755149
    14 Irish + Irish + Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + West_Scottish @ 1.789977
    15 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.791070
    16 Spanish_Murcia + West_Scottish + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.816044
    17 Irish + Spanish_Valencia + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.831542
    18 Irish + Irish + Irish + Spanish_Murcia @ 1.832828
    19 Irish + Irish + Spanish_Valencia + West_Scottish @ 1.842884
    20 Irish + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.855723

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Sea 33.86
    2 Atlantic 31.31
    3 West_Med 11.07
    4 Baltic 8.95
    5 Eastern_Euro 6.52
    6 West_Asian 4.22
    7 East_Med 1.66

    K15:
    Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
    15 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Southwest_English @ 3.397717
    2 Southeast_English @ 4.076269
    3 Irish @ 5.654662
    4 West_Scottish @ 6.427110
    5 South_Dutch @ 7.263744
    6 Orcadian @ 7.596617
    7 North_Dutch @ 8.338920
    8 Danish @ 8.501882
    9 North_German @ 8.597628
    10 French @ 10.472676
    11 West_German @ 10.833665
    12 Norwegian @ 12.919929
    13 West_Norwegian @ 13.508896
    14 Swedish @ 14.401640
    15 East_German @ 16.623953
    16 North_Swedish @ 17.433315
    17 Spanish_Cataluna @ 17.932972
    18 Spanish_Galicia @ 18.836769
    19 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 19.214035
    20 Portuguese @ 19.752096

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Southwest_English +50% Southwest_English @ 3.397717


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Irish +25% Orcadian +25% Spanish_Cantabria @ 1.958201


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_French @ 1.857995
    2 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + Spanish_Cantabria @ 1.958201
    3 Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_French + West_Scottish @ 1.970779
    4 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Spanish_Aragon @ 1.979403
    5 Irish + Orcadian + Spanish_Cantabria + West_Scottish @ 1.981442
    6 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Spanish_Cantabria @ 2.019338
    7 Orcadian + Spanish_Cantabria + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.087504
    8 Orcadian + Orcadian + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish @ 2.094502
    9 Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian + Southwest_French @ 2.098725
    10 Irish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Spanish_Castilla_La_Mancha @ 2.122670
    11 French_Basque + Orcadian + Orcadian + Swedish @ 2.172059
    12 Irish + Orcadian + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish @ 2.195370
    13 Orcadian + Orcadian + Spanish_Cantabria + West_Scottish @ 2.197643
    14 French_Basque + North_Dutch + North_Dutch + Orcadian @ 2.205709
    15 Orcadian + Spanish_Aragon + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.219547
    16 Irish + Orcadian + Southwest_French + West_Scottish @ 2.234982
    17 Irish + Irish + Orcadian + Spanish_Aragon @ 2.241977
    18 Orcadian + Southwest_French + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 2.246790
    19 Orcadian + Orcadian + Southeast_English + Southwest_French @ 2.250263
    20 French_Basque + North_Dutch + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 2.259616

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  3. #12
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    Pahli Kurd
    Y-DNA (P)
    J1-M267
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    L3d1-5

    AchaemenidEmpire1 Iran Sassanid Empire Kurdistan
    Both K13 and K15 seem accurate to me, I am Near Eastern though.

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  5. #13
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    H1b

    United States of America
    I think Dodecad K7b pulls too far "exotic" in the sense of not enough Northwestern Europe.

    # Population Percent
    1 Atlantic_Baltic 69.71
    2 Southern 14.46
    3 West_Asian 12.03
    4 South_Asian 2.23
    5 African 0.88
    6 Siberian 0.68


    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Hungarians @ 3.512580
    2 Mixed_Germanic @ 5.557906
    3 German @ 6.192037
    4 French @ 6.200512
    5 Cornwall @ 6.447558
    6 French @ 6.582316
    7 CEU30 @ 7.002784
    8 Dutch @ 7.069077
    9 Kent @ 7.241355
    10 English @ 7.663088
    11 British @ 8.907436
    12 British_Isles @ 9.111423
    13 Ukranians @ 9.141646
    14 Irish @ 9.229425
    15 Argyll @ 9.386383
    16 Orcadian @ 9.652410
    17 Mixed_Slav @ 10.157302
    18 Orkney @ 10.455759
    19 Polish @ 12.029029
    20 Norwegian @ 13.254745

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Lithuanian +50% N_Italian @ 2.589142


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Lithuanian +25% Portuguese +25% Romanians @ 1.740074


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Lithuanian + Portuguese + Romanians + Swedish @ 1.577914
    2 Belorussian + Lithuanian + Portuguese + Romanians @ 1.632106
    3 Lithuanians + Polish + Portuguese + Romanians @ 1.649844
    4 Canarias + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Romanians @ 1.694855
    5 Lithuanian + Polish + Portuguese + Romanians @ 1.708328
    6 Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Portuguese + Romanians @ 1.740074
    7 Extremadura + Lithuanian + Romanians + Swedish @ 1.780967
    8 Bulgarians + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Portuguese @ 1.817589
    9 Castilla_Y_Leon + Lithuanian + Polish + Romanians @ 1.821259
    10 Bulgarian + Lithuanian + Lithuanian + Portuguese @ 1.824617
    Known ancestry: English, French, German, Dutch

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  7. #14
    Banned
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    R1b-(L21/M529)

    England Scotland Germany
    Quote Originally Posted by Kiln View Post
    Eurogenes are the most accurate for me.

    They're all pretty similar.

    K13 & K15 in same order:
     
    Code:
    1 	North_Atlantic 		49.41
    2 	Baltic 			21.08
    3 	West_Med 		18.05
    4 	East_Med 		5.03
    5 	East_Asian 		2.31
    6 	West_Asian 		1.98
    7 	Amerindian 		1.31
    8 	Northeast_African 	0.68
    9 	Red_Sea 		0.16
    
    Single Population Sharing:
    
    #	Population (source)	Distance
    1 	Southeast_English 	5.54
    2 	Southwest_English 	5.65
    3 	South_Dutch 		6.97
    4 	Orcadian 		7.34
    5 	West_Scottish 		8.19
    6 	Irish 			8.33
    7 	West_German 		8.59
    8 	North_Dutch 		9.2
    9 	French 			9.35
    10 	Danish 			9.6


     
    Code:
    1 	North_Sea		34.61
    2 	Atlantic 		28.99
    3 	West_Med 		13.6
    4 	Baltic 			11.06
    5 	Eastern_Euro 		5.35
    6 	East_Med 		1.97
    7 	Southeast_Asian 	1.91
    8 	Amerindian 		1.15
    9 	West_Asian 		0.76
    10 	Northeast_African 	0.61
    
    Single Population Sharing:
    
    #	Population (source)	Distance
    1 	Southwest_English 	4.89
    2 	Southeast_English 	6.22
    3 	Irish 			7.5
    4 	South_Dutch 		7.52
    5 	West_Scottish 		8.09
    6 	North_Dutch 		8.46
    7 	Orcadian 		8.63
    8 	West_German 		9.01
    9 	Danish 			9.12
    10 	French 			9.25


    Dodecad k7b is really close to Eurogenes.

     
    Code:
    1 	Atlantic_Baltic 	74.02
    2 	Southern 		15.23
    3 	West_Asian 		8.34
    4 	East_Asian 		1.76
    5 	African 		0.37
    6 	Siberian 		0.27
    
    Single Population Sharing:
    
    #	Population (source)	Distance
    1 	Cornwall (1000Genomes) 		3.43
    2 	Kent (1000Genomes) 		3.85
    3 	English (Dodecad) 		3.87
    4 	Mixed_Germanic (Dodecad) 	3.92
    5 	CEU30 (1000Genomes) 		4.42
    6 	German (Dodecad) 		4.67
    7 	British (Dodecad) 		5.07
    8 	British_Isles (Dodecad) 	5.27
    9 	Dutch (Dodecad) 		5.59
    10 	Irish (Dodecad) 		5.7
    Lets compare these to commercial testing:

    DNA Land:

    Northwest Euro: 70%
    Southern Euro(Southwest+South Central): 24.1%
    East Euro: 4.7%

    FTDNA:


    Northwest Euro(Scandinavia+British Isles): 55%
    Southern Euro: 35%
    East Euro 9%

    Way off in left field we have...


    Ancestry:

    West/Central Euro: 52%
    Northwest Euro(Irish+Great Britain+Scandinavian): 33%
    Southern Euro(Italy + Iberian): 12%
    Eastern Euro: <1%

    WeGenes:


    West/Central Euro: ~59%
    Southern Euro(Italy + Iberian): ~30
    Eastern Euro: ~10%

     

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  9. #15
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    Y-DNA (P)
    I-M223 > I-Z2059
    Y-DNA (M)
    R-Z36 > R-A7992

    Brazil Canada Italy Veneto Galicia Star of David Netherlands
    I do have some Native American and African ancestry as well, but being it mostly European, k13 and k15 seem to be more accurate to what my known ancestry is (including the non-European elements).

    k13:

     
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 26.88
    2 West_Med 19.47
    3 Amerindian 12.03
    4 Sub-Saharan 10.03
    5 East_Med 9.72
    6 Baltic 9.64
    7 Red_Sea 4.76
    8 West_Asian 3.40
    9 Northeast_African 1.71
    10 Siberian 1.30
    11 Oceanian 1.00



    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Portuguese @ 20.242155
    2 Spanish_Extremadura @ 20.275148
    3 Spanish_Galicia @ 20.466927
    4 North_Italian @ 20.730907
    5 Spanish_Murcia @ 21.609892
    6 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 21.875780
    7 Spanish_Andalucia @ 22.483097
    8 Spanish_Cataluna @ 22.607704

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Irish +50% Mozabite_Berber @ 14.843652


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% French +25% Mozabite_Berber +25% North_Amerindian @ 11.882441


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Austrian + French_Basque + Mozabite_Berber + North_Amerindian @ 10.844922
    2 Mozabite_Berber + North_Amerindian + Southwest_English + Spanish_Cantabria @ 10.925120
    3 East_German + French_Basque + Mozabite_Berber + North_Amerindian @ 10.944474
    4 French_Basque + Mozabite_Berber + North_Amerindian + West_German @ 10.966306



    k15:

     
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 Atlantic 23.75
    2 West_Med 15.70
    3 Amerindian 11.99
    4 North_Sea 11.81
    5 Sub-Saharan 10.18
    6 Baltic 6.85
    7 East_Med 6.47
    8 Red_Sea 4.99
    9 West_Asian 4.17
    10 Northeast_African 1.87
    11 Siberian 1.30



    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Spanish_Extremadura @ 19.522333
    2 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 19.653574
    3 Portuguese @ 19.962542
    4 Spanish_Murcia @ 20.008417
    5 Spanish_Andalucia @ 20.209375
    6 Spanish_Galicia @ 20.543211
    7 North_Italian @ 20.687302
    8 Spanish_Cataluna @ 20.891798

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Irish +50% Mozabite_Berber @ 17.163479


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% French_Basque +25% North_Amerindian +25% Tunisian @ 12.480708


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 French_Basque + Mozabite_Berber + North_Amerindian + Southwest_English @ 11.778250
    2 French_Basque + Mozabite_Berber + North_Amerindian + South_Dutch @ 11.789356
    3 French_Basque + Mozabite_Berber + North_Amerindian + North_German @ 11.805634
    4 French + French_Basque + Mozabite_Berber + North_Amerindian @ 11.823573



    Now Dodecad K7b, for example, points to very different results in the population approximations:

     
    # Population Percent
    1 Atlantic_Baltic 46.55
    2 Southern 20.62
    3 African 11.75
    4 West_Asian 9.46
    5 Siberian 5.76
    6 East_Asian 4.21
    7 South_Asian 1.67



    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Canarias @ 19.103348
    2 O_Italian @ 19.243143
    3 N_Italian @ 19.459642
    4 Romanians @ 19.480759
    5 Bulgarians @ 19.657104
    6 North_Italian @ 19.716780
    7 Bulgarian @ 19.845352
    8 Portuguese @ 20.180315

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Algerian +50% Mordovians @ 7.815697


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% British_Isles +25% Ethiopian_Jews +25% Uzbeks @ 4.590722


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Ethiopian_Jews + French_Basque + Lithuanians + Uzbeks @ 2.495333
    2 Ethiopian_Jews + Lithuanians + Pais_Vasco + Uzbeks @ 2.606279
    3 Ethiopians + French_Basque + Lithuanians + Uzbeks @ 2.747604
    4 Ethiopians + Lithuanians + Pais_Vasco + Uzbeks @ 2.860801
    5 Finnish + French_Basque + Nogais + Somali @ 3.126377
    Last edited by galon07; 08-16-2016 at 04:34 PM.

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  11. #16
    Gold Class Member
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    R1b-U152-Z36+FGC6511
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    H11a2a

    United States of America Germany England France Scotland Ireland
    It may be helpful to read the basic comments made by Davidski for these calculators:

    Update 6/10/2012: The Jtest K14 and EUtest K13 will soon be available at GEDmatch, accompanied by an "Oracle" population matching analysis....

    Update 07/10/2013: An upgraded version of the popular EUtest is now available at GEDmatch. This new test is essentially an upgraded version of the EUtest. Unlike the original, it includes an Amerindian component and five native reference populations from North and Central America. So obviously it should be a lot more useful for users from the New World who are wondering about Amerindian admixture. (this is talking a about Eurogenes EUtestV2 K15)

    Update 27/11/2013: I've made the new K13 the default Eurogenes admix test at GEDmatch. It seems to hit the spot for most people. I now have four tests at GEDmatch with Oracles: the Jtest, EUtest, K15 and K13. It's useful to keep in mind that these tests will differ in their interpretation of the data, and perhaps accuracy, depending on the ancestry of the user. For instance, the new K13 should be more useful for Central and South Asians than any of the others, because it features new reference samples relevant to them.

    So, the most current calculator and the one that "hits the spot for most people" is the newest K13. I think this is born out by its popularity. But, that doesn't mean that running all four may not be helpful.

    I do see some that seem more concerned about what must be things like the three and four population Oracles. I guess I consider anytime these say anything that seems useful in any calculator (which is almost never) a matter of luck of the draw. Some of our members did play with some mapping tools where we determined the midpoint of the Oracle-4 results of the calculators and many of those could be considered somewhat useful if that is how the populations were used - meaning to use them as coordinates for which the midpoint is a reasonable representation of my ancestry (or admixture).

    For my taste, I look for the first single population Oracle to be either correct (for my father who has about 97% of his ancestry from one region) or a reasonable mid-point of the ancestry of the rest of my tested family members. So, here is how those four tests (and more) do in relation to my father, who should be South German, West German, or French (the 97%) and maybe something like Croatian for a low-K calculator where the remaining 3% consolidates as East and South Asian and "pulls" him south and east:

    Euro EUTest: West_&_Central_German @ 6.46
    Euro JTest: West_&_Central_German @ 6.41
    Euro K15: West_German @ 4.71
    Euro K13: French @ 4.27

    So, all "good". Some of the others:

    MDLP K13 Ultimate: Croatian @ 3.07
    MDLP K23b: South_German ( ) @ 3.79
    MDLP World-22: German-South (derived) @ 3.45
    MDLP World: German-South @ 2.64
    Dodecad V3: CEU (HapMap) @ 6.76
    Dodecad World9: Hungarians (Behar) @ 3.11
    Dodecad K7b: Hungarians (Behar) @ 3.19
    Dodecad K12b: French (Dodecad) @ 7.34
    HarappaWorld: french (hgdp) @ 5.07
    puntDNAL K10 Ancient: French @ 4.7
    puntDNAL K15: French @ 3.09
    GedrosiaDNA Ancient Eurasia K6: Croatian @ 1.21
    GedrosiaDNA Near East Neolithic K13: French @ 4.84
    GedrosiaDNA Eurasia K14: French @ 5.35
    GedrosiaDNA Eurasia K10 CHG: Croatian @ 2.43
    GedrosiaDNA Gedrosia K15: French @ 8.74
    GedrosiaDNA Eurasia K9 ASI: Croatian @ 3.66

    Most of these are pretty good, but I prefer the ones that can deal with the 3% out-of-area admixture and still get the right answer. Just for fun, here is the top Oracle-4 result from MDLP World, which gets the right answer at a close distance in the single population. I am not picking on this one, as these are consistently not all that useful for recent ancestry research from any calculator:

    Finnish + Welsh + Kosovar + Kosovar @ 1.187362

    It does tell me that if you take the spreadsheet values on this calculator for Finnish, Welsh, and Kosovar x 2, divide each one by 25%, and then add them together, it produces a match "closer" than any single population does.

    Just my two cents.
    Last edited by randwulf; 08-16-2016 at 11:01 PM.

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  13. #17
    Member
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    English
    Y-DNA (P)
    R1a Z284 YP398*
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    W1g

    Here are my results for comparison using both calculator.
    I'm 7/8th English, 1/8th Polish.

    K13
     
    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 49.46
    2 Baltic 24.27
    3 West_Med 11.74
    4 West_Asian 6.70
    5 East_Med 3.17
    6 Red_Sea 1.64


    Finished reading population data. 204 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 North_Dutch @ 2.828389
    2 Orcadian @ 3.263492
    3 Irish @ 3.622906
    4 Danish @ 3.737880
    5 Southeast_English @ 4.397028
    6 West_Scottish @ 4.474055
    7 North_German @ 4.564821
    8 Southwest_English @ 5.246136
    9 Norwegian @ 5.520878
    10 Swedish @ 7.825533
    11 South_Dutch @ 7.996568
    12 West_German @ 9.082438
    13 French @ 14.509717
    14 North_Swedish @ 14.595860
    15 Austrian @ 14.733749
    16 East_German @ 15.212948
    17 Hungarian @ 19.976974
    18 Spanish_Cataluna @ 22.894800
    19 Southwest_Finnish @ 23.635500
    20 Spanish_Castilla_Y_Leon @ 24.055273

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% North_German +50% Southwest_English @ 1.954841


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Irish +25% Norwegian +25% West_German @ 1.510784


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Irish + Irish + Norwegian + West_German @ 1.510784
    2 Irish + Norwegian + West_German + West_Scottish @ 1.560944
    3 Irish + Irish + North_Dutch + West_German @ 1.584084
    4 Irish + North_Dutch + West_German + West_Scottish @ 1.648800
    5 Irish + Swedish + West_German + West_Scottish @ 1.717563
    6 Irish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch + South_Dutch @ 1.722819
    7 Norwegian + West_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.724547
    8 Irish + North_German + South_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 1.731112
    9 Swedish + West_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.732569
    10 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + West_German + West_Scottish @ 1.735759
    11 Irish + North_Dutch + North_Dutch + West_German @ 1.746061
    12 Irish + Irish + North_German + South_Dutch @ 1.747600
    13 Irish + North_Dutch + Norwegian + West_German @ 1.751143
    14 Irish + Irish + Norwegian + South_Dutch @ 1.762921
    15 Irish + North_German + West_German + West_Scottish @ 1.766382
    16 North_German + North_German + Southwest_English + West_Scottish @ 1.770553
    17 North_German + West_German + West_Scottish + West_Scottish @ 1.773039
    18 Irish + North_German + North_German + Southwest_English @ 1.775477
    19 North_Dutch + Norwegian + West_German + West_Scottish @ 1.776752
    20 North_Dutch + North_Dutch + South_Dutch + West_Scottish @ 1.778400


    K15
     
    # Population Percent
    1 North_Sea 44.37
    2 Atlantic 20.62
    3 Baltic 9.30
    4 West_Med 8.87
    5 Eastern_Euro 7.96
    6 West_Asian 4.80
    7 Red_Sea 1.32


    Finished reading population data. 207 populations found.
    15 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 West_Norwegian @ 6.991489
    2 Norwegian @ 8.505827
    3 Swedish @ 9.854544
    4 Orcadian @ 9.973078
    5 North_Dutch @ 10.244491
    6 Danish @ 11.801214
    7 West_German @ 12.168098
    8 West_Scottish @ 12.536422
    9 Southwest_English @ 12.748678
    10 Southeast_English @ 13.081049
    11 Irish @ 13.225149
    12 North_Swedish @ 14.028803
    13 North_German @ 14.405421
    14 South_Dutch @ 16.505640
    15 French @ 19.422310
    16 East_German @ 20.700243
    17 Southwest_Finnish @ 22.526068
    18 Finnish @ 24.372377
    19 Hungarian @ 24.566914
    20 Austrian @ 26.956324

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% West_Norwegian +50% West_Norwegian @ 6.991489


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% West_Norwegian +25% West_Norwegian +25% West_Norwegian @ 6.991489


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 6.696671
    2 West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 6.991489
    3 Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.141275
    4 Orcadian + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.187591
    5 Norwegian + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.189855
    6 Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.271047
    7 Norwegian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.410765
    8 Swedish + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.424678
    9 Southwest_English + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.438073
    10 North_Dutch + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.471003
    11 Swedish + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.504483
    12 Orcadian + Swedish + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.546383
    13 Norwegian + Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.623817
    14 North_Dutch + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.629523
    15 Norwegian + Orcadian + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 7.638764
    16 French + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.734979
    17 Norwegian + Norwegian + West_German + West_Norwegian @ 7.737217
    18 Norwegian + Norwegian + Orcadian + West_Norwegian @ 7.747659
    19 West_German + West_German + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.751675
    20 Southeast_English + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian + West_Norwegian @ 7.757240


    It's still very North European, all the Polish DNA does is move me east from England and hover me over Denmark/North German/Netherlands.
    Last edited by Oathsworn; 08-16-2016 at 09:37 PM.

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  15. #18
    Gold Class Member
    Posts
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    Jewish & British
    Y-DNA (P)
    J-Z18271
    mtDNA (M)
    J1c5
    Y-DNA (M)
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    mtDNA (P)
    U7a5

    Israel Israel Jerusalem United Kingdom England Scotland Isle of Man
    K13 and K15 are the most accurate tests for my mother so far, they do a fine job figuring out what her actual ancestry is, if Welsh and Cornish references were added I have no doubt it'd be even better. Same thing for her cousin.
    מכורותיך ומולדותיך מארץ הכנעני אביך האמורי ואמך חתית
    יחזקאל פרק טז ג-


    ᾽Άλλο δέ τοι ἐρέω, σὺ δ᾽ ἐνὶ φρεσὶ βάλλεο σῇσιν:
    κρύβδην, μηδ᾽ ἀναφανδά, φίλην ἐς πατρίδα γαῖαν
    νῆα κατισχέμεναι: ἐπεὶ οὐκέτι πιστὰ γυναιξίν.


    -Αγαμέμνων; H Οδύσσεια, Ραψωδία λ

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  17. #19
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    My results vary greatly between the 2 calculators. I'm super Celtic using K13 and I become more Germanic with the K15.

    K13:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Atlantic 51.01
    2 Baltic 23.37
    3 West_Med 13.70
    4 West_Asian 6.22
    5 East_Med 2.06
    6 Amerindian 1.56
    7 South_Asian 1.29

    # Population (source) Distance
    1 Irish 2.12
    2 Orcadian 2.23
    3 West_Scottish 2.69
    4 Southwest_English 3.04
    5 Southeast_English 3.33
    K15:

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 North_Sea 42.38
    2 Atlantic 22.58
    3 West_Med 10.58
    4 Eastern_Euro 9.38
    5 Baltic 8.77
    6 West_Asian 3.85
    7 Amerindian 1.34

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 West_Norwegian @ 6.402053
    2 Norwegian @ 7.357819
    3 Orcadian @ 7.948425
    4 North_Dutch @ 8.617307
    5 Swedish @ 9.521982
    Irish has the lowest least squares distance using K13 and isn't even in the top 10 using K15.

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  19. #20
    Banned for Multiple Accounts Violation
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    Basque France Germany Spain United Kingdom Japan
    Quote Originally Posted by AnnieD View Post
    Dodecad is not considered to be designed for Western Europeans, I believe. Does anyone not like Eurogenes K13 or -K15? 
    I don't. Or more I don't like how some [& not just yourself] will prompt the different oracles good for this regional group or that regional group.


    Using Eurogenes k13/15

    With the Oracle 4 / 4 populations

    If I didn't know my family history or have a sibling to reference [or a close relative] I'd be looking at my supersized Scandinavian results and be thinking I am a Swede or something. Doesn't help that I actually get Scandinavian relatives on FTDNA and a few cousins on 23&me by marrige but no direct relation to myself. It can't identify the French connection which is rather comical as aside from dad's rather French family line my mother's Irish ancestors didn't just originate with Huguenot ties but her great-great-great grandfather was from Paris.


    With the mixed population for Eurogenes

    The Scandinavian [Danish specifically] throws it off of course. Even if I was to use the mapping methods mentioned on another post it habitually puts me in the Normandy region or Netherlands where the family is actually far more southern. The east asian ancestry doesn't even register beyond anything that wouldn't be seen as noise [0.66] and the east med / western asian is low as well.




    Dodecad

    Is actually in a way more accurate. It drags the Scandinavian out of the top five options and into the bottom five options in the 1 population aspect. What does it replace that Scandinavian with? German, French and Dutch which is better to the familial history. It does add eastern European but below the immediate family knowledge.

    And where none of the Eurogenes identified Jewish but a passing two options Dodecad does throughout in world9, k7b, and k12b. It actually gives me my Greek ancestry which eurogenes doesn't. Similarly the east-asian is there as a few Han / Dai. Dodecad could identify the Korean / Japanese of a cousin, alongside the Spanish & Jewish he gets from this side, while Eurogenes was insisting he was Vietnamese or Cambodian with a mixed population of Pygmy and Bantu [where African is very low in the other calculators for him, as in the others don't give him that].



    My point is from an ethnical standpoint use every calculator. It will give you alternative versions. If some of those versions are completely alien to the others - eliminate them - and keep going back and forth until you get some sort of uniformity. That is likely your ethnicity or close enough.

    Or so a friend insists and she has every calculator recorded - 62 pages on word.
    Last edited by Gaku; 08-17-2016 at 02:00 AM.

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