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Thread: AncestryDNA results vs GEDmatch etc..

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    Question AncestryDNA results vs GEDmatch etc..

    Alright, I know this is an inexact science but I've heard, not officially, but through the grapevine, that AncestryDNA ethnicity results are worse than 23andme which would make sense right ? I mean you get what you pay for.

    My know ancestry is from Donegal, Scotland, England South-midland Ireland and Alsace-Lorraine France. My paternal is Donegal, Scotland, and England but my Dad just looks simply Scottish and his father , from Donegal looked Scottish to me too (definitely could see obvious Norse imprint etc...) and my paternal is Southern-midland Ireland + Southern Germanic (Alsace-Lorraine France).

    So ancestry DNA has my results at 52% Irish like 36% like 6 or 8% Norse and the rest seemingly statistical white noise (they are not all or most less than 1% but that it still like noise to me, personally).

    Now, this seems like nonsense. Scots have viking DNA but there is no reason for that to show up as part of my ethnicity chart. Mainland Scots are halfway genetically between the native Irish/Welsh, on the one hand, and the Germanics (Vikings and Anglo-Saxons or English) on the other so how much does it makes sense to say 52% Irish ? Now my maternal line could be similar to the Cornish because my irish grandfather was not really far outside the pale if outside it at all nor the North_Atlantic facade and the Germanic from Alsace-Lorraine would be similar enough to the Anglo-Saxons to place those genetics close to Cornwall but not far enough as Devon and definitely not East-Anglia.

    Basically, GEDmatch Eutest is telling me what I want to hear and AncestryDNA is not.

    Here are my GEDmatch results from the Eutest (I don't have any amerindian or South or Central Asian ancestry so no k13 and k15 and if I am not mistaken the average population distance is 15) :



    Kit Num: ******
    Threshold of components set to 1.000
    Threshold of method set to 0.25%
    Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.
    Gedmatch.Com
    EUtest 4-Ancestors Oracle
    This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
    Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
    Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
    Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

    EUtest Oracle population reference data revised 06 Nov 2012.

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 ATLANTIC 29.96
    2 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 26.77
    3 SOUTH_BALTIC 12.91
    4 WEST_MED 10.57
    5 EAST_EURO 10.27
    6 WEST_ASIAN 4.44
    7 EAST_MED 2.47
    8 SOUTH_ASIAN 1.59


    Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Orcadian @ 2.572646
    2 Cornish @ 2.927963
    3 IE @ 2.939580
    4 Scottish @ 3.636564
    5 English @ 4.970222
    6 NL @ 5.760987
    7 West_&_Central_German @ 6.989939
    8 DK @ 7.561948
    9 NO @ 9.355514
    10 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 10.225418
    11 FR @ 12.779758
    12 North_Swedish @ 14.188993
    13 AT @ 14.855093
    14 HU @ 20.764002
    15 ES @ 21.047228
    16 PT @ 21.158691
    17 South_Finnish @ 23.622814
    18 Serbian @ 23.986607
    19 French_Basque @ 25.100336
    20 North_Italian @ 25.704790

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Cornish +50% Scottish @ 1.968661


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Cornish +25% Orcadian +25% Scottish @ 1.857162


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Cornish + Cornish + Orcadian + Scottish @ 1.857162
    2 Cornish + Cornish + IE + Scottish @ 1.916898
    3 Cornish + NL + Scottish + Scottish @ 1.940600
    4 Cornish + Cornish + Scottish + Scottish @ 1.968661
    5 Cornish + Cornish + IE + Orcadian @ 1.979756
    6 Cornish + English + Scottish + Scottish @ 2.012911
    7 Cornish + Scottish + Scottish + West_&_Central_German @ 2.030463
    8 Cornish + English + IE + Scottish @ 2.040028
    9 Cornish + Cornish + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.049928
    10 Cornish + Cornish + IE + IE @ 2.053847
    11 Cornish + IE + NL + Scottish @ 2.059194
    12 Cornish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Scottish @ 2.062128
    13 Cornish + IE + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.097064
    14 Cornish + IE + Orcadian + Scottish @ 2.106331
    15 Cornish + English + Orcadian + Scottish @ 2.109261
    16 Cornish + Cornish + Cornish + Scottish @ 2.117296
    17 Cornish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.133714
    18 Cornish + IE + Scottish + West_&_Central_German @ 2.159240
    19 Cornish + IE + IE + Orcadian @ 2.173518
    20 Cornish + NL + Orcadian + Scottish @ 2.174028

    Done.

    Elapsed time 0.0417 seconds.

    So would I be mistaken if I just identified as Scottish or a mix of Scottish or cornish even the it wouldn't be necessarily 100% exact given the my population distance with the average being 15 ? I mean traditionally the Irish have nothing in Common with the Germanics and while I recognize I have some Germanic heritage identifying as Scottish or Scottish+Cornish allows me to aknowledge my Germanic ancestry while still identifying as Anglo-Celtic.This could be selection bias on my part as I like the GEDmatch results better. Please I'm just trying to figure out my ethnicity and this is driving me a bit crazy here. I'm a newbie to all this stuff compared to some of you guys here so I could use some help, thanks in advance.

    P.S.

    BTW, if you guys want me to contrast k13 and k15 here I will but I don't see the point but maybe you could enlighten me if you need it.
    "Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence it will fade as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines."--Bertrand Russell

    "ah, yes, dear brutes-- but then we must also be ever vigilant against scientism since neolithic humans cannot do real science." --New Albion

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    Hmmm, that's really tough to answer. There are a lot of anglofied Irish people who think they are ethnically Brits and get surprised when they see DNA results showing otherwise. The same happens vice versa. Sounds like you're mostly from the British Isles which makes sense according to your rumored background.

    As far as your identity, a DNA test should never change that. You are who you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MyAnthropologies View Post
    Hmmm, that's really tough to answer. There are a lot of anglofied Irish people who think they are ethnically Brits and get surprised when they see DNA results showing otherwise. The same happens vice versa. Sounds like you're mostly from the British Isles which makes sense according to your rumored background.

    As far as your identity, a DNA test should never change that. You are who you are.
    Not to be rude but there seems to be some kind of liberal agenda against using these tests to identify primarily with one tribe or ethnicity. It won't change who am I am profoundly either way : I'll still identify as Anglo-Celtic rather than Anglo-Saxon. I just prefer the Scots and Cornish over the Irish because of the history of invention and science in these regions comparatively speaking. I'm not saying that means I am going to necessarily make any scientific breakthroughs or major inventions but still... the Scots etc.. are brother Gods of the Irish. Anyway, even if ancestryDNA is correct that could still mean I am like a highland Scot rather than Irish or a lowland Scot. Honestly, the true Irish should have nothing in common with the Germanics that is another reason why I have problems identifying as Irish. The companies like AncestryDNA seem to have a liberal agenda for not identifying with one tribe e.g. British, Scots, or German or whatever one's closest ethnic analogue may be.
    Last edited by NewAlbion; 08-16-2016 at 10:02 AM.
    "Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence it will fade as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines."--Bertrand Russell

    "ah, yes, dear brutes-- but then we must also be ever vigilant against scientism since neolithic humans cannot do real science." --New Albion

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    Basically, GEDmatch Eutest is telling me what I want to hear and AncestryDNA is not.
    I am very doubtful that this is the way to approach things, ie ignoring that which doesn't fit in with what you want it to be.
    If you have a fixed idea of your ancestry then why do autosomal testing in the first place?

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    I think that much remains to be seen in regard to Irish genetics & admixture affinities to their neighbors & other NW populations. The most comprehensive British Au genetics project to date, People of British Isles Welcomme Trust study, included only N.
    Ireland. This region may be "corrupted", however, by Anglo Planters & Scottish Ulster. LOL! 😊 Although the Irish Atlas DNA project is still underway, preliminary results are yielding many similarities with Scottish and British in general. There have also been several fully Irish posting their Eurogenes K13 results showing primary matches with Dutch, sometimes higher than other British populations.

    Personally, however, I see some striking differences in cultural heritage, with Ireland offering some extraordinary music & literature traditions over perhaps a more pragmatic Scottish tradition.It will be interesting to see if DNA studies bridge the gap, or widen it. 😊

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    Quote Originally Posted by firemonkey View Post
    I am very doubtful that this is the way to approach things, ie ignoring that which doesn't fit in with what you want it to be.
    If you have a fixed idea of your ancestry then why do autosomal testing in the first place?
    True, but I've heard, online, so it may not be true, that of all the commerical testing companies AncestryDNA is the least accurate. Basically, they just want to sell you a subscription to the rest of the ancestry or geneology portion of their website and the testing is just a small part of what they do compared to other companies that are more or less dedicated to the DNA testing portion. It is easy to see their strategy it is like they know that many people testing are looking for small possibly unknown surprising parts of their ancestry like with me it says 6% or 8% Scandinavian but that is just nonsense the the 25% Orcadian 4 squared result, from GEDmatch, makes more sense since I know my father is Scottish ethnically and the Orkneys have significant Norse input etc... I think ancestryDNA is bullshit more or less just a marketing ploy. I mean I don't literally think on my maternal side that I'm cornish just that I have possibly a closer ethnic affinity to them than the Irish. The latter may or may not be true but what we do know is the real Irish should have nothing in common with the Germanics historically speaking or traditionally speaking.
    Last edited by NewAlbion; 08-16-2016 at 04:03 PM.
    "Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence it will fade as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines."--Bertrand Russell

    "ah, yes, dear brutes-- but then we must also be ever vigilant against scientism since neolithic humans cannot do real science." --New Albion

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    Colonial English plus a little German.

    Ancestry is garbage.

    52% continental? What a joke!

     



    Eurogenes nails it.

     

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    I agree that Ancestry is terrible. Gedmatch gives more realistic results, or what you want to hear, I suppose.

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    Everyone has an opinion.

    For me, Ancestry has proven to be pretty accurate. Family Finder's myOrigins, however, is in serious need of an update.

    It seems to me comparing Ancestry or Family Finder to Gedmatch is kind of an apples-to-oranges exercise. The results are not couched in the same terms, which of course, leaves things wide open for whatever one's preferred interpretation is.

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    I am not necessarily willing to simply dismiss Ancestry's results as "terrible". But here's one thing 23andMe does that Ancestry does not -- nor does FTDNA, for that matter. They show you the breakdown of your ancestry on a chromosome-by-chromosome basis.

    This makes comparisons with others quite easy. So I'm able to tell, for example, if someone I match at a certain chromosome also shows the same ethnicity at that same place. (Because my father has also been tested, I can almost always tell which side the match is on.)

    When it comes to matches, Ancestry does have some useful tools -- including "hints", sometimes, that point to a common ancestor or ancestors. (These might or might not be the ones from whom the shared DNA was inherited, however; although they do also have a beta feature called DNA Circles.) But the lack of any sort of chromosome browser is a serious deficiency to Ancestry, as far as I'm concerned.

    I suppose we're often tempted to see "best" and "worst" in terms of what best fits our preconceptions or preferences. In my opinion, Ancestry is not the worst company when it comes to ethnicity analysis. I'd say that FTDNA is. But all that really means is that I see FTDNA's MyOrigins as being the least accurate for me.

    In part, I base that on what I believe is their misinterpretation of my Native American ancestry -- which virtually every other calculator has identified (including 23andMe, Ancestry, and numerous GEDmatch calculators) -- as East Asian. This ancestry is also reflected in my tree, with documentation; and in the trees of a great many of my matches. And, MyOrigins did manage to identify my brother's Native American ancestry as such.

    Compounding the problem, they only let you rank your matches in MyOrigins by your top three top level ethnicities. In my case, that means European, Central/South Asia, and Middle Eastern. Since East Asian is 4th, I can't rank my matches according to that category.

    My brother only has three at the top level, with "New World" being the third (and the same percentage as my "East Asian". So he can rank according to any of them. As one might expect, at least half my brother's matches are also my matches. They include a confirmed 3rd cousin who descends from the same Native American ancestor my brother and I do.

    And this gets back to how handy that chromosome-by-chromosome breakdown of ancestral origin is at 23andMe. FTDNA doesn't have it, and should. But Ancestry doesn't even have any sort of chromosome browser. If you want to say it's the worst, it should be for that reason, rather than for their ancestry analysis.
    Last edited by geebee; 08-20-2016 at 04:25 PM.
    Besides British-German-Catalan, ancestry includes smaller amounts of French, Irish, Swiss, Choctaw & another NA tribe, possibly Catawba. Avatar picture is: my father, his father, & his father's father; baby is my eldest brother.

    GB

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