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    Question AncestryDNA results vs GEDmatch etc..

    Alright, I know this is an inexact science but I've heard, not officially, but through the grapevine, that AncestryDNA ethnicity results are worse than 23andme which would make sense right ? I mean you get what you pay for.

    My know ancestry is from Donegal, Scotland, England South-midland Ireland and Alsace-Lorraine France. My paternal is Donegal, Scotland, and England but my Dad just looks simply Scottish and his father , from Donegal looked Scottish to me too (definitely could see obvious Norse imprint etc...) and my paternal is Southern-midland Ireland + Southern Germanic (Alsace-Lorraine France).

    So ancestry DNA has my results at 52% Irish like 36% like 6 or 8% Norse and the rest seemingly statistical white noise (they are not all or most less than 1% but that it still like noise to me, personally).

    Now, this seems like nonsense. Scots have viking DNA but there is no reason for that to show up as part of my ethnicity chart. Mainland Scots are halfway genetically between the native Irish/Welsh, on the one hand, and the Germanics (Vikings and Anglo-Saxons or English) on the other so how much does it makes sense to say 52% Irish ? Now my maternal line could be similar to the Cornish because my irish grandfather was not really far outside the pale if outside it at all nor the North_Atlantic facade and the Germanic from Alsace-Lorraine would be similar enough to the Anglo-Saxons to place those genetics close to Cornwall but not far enough as Devon and definitely not East-Anglia.

    Basically, GEDmatch Eutest is telling me what I want to hear and AncestryDNA is not.

    Here are my GEDmatch results from the Eutest (I don't have any amerindian or South or Central Asian ancestry so no k13 and k15 and if I am not mistaken the average population distance is 15) :



    Kit Num: ******
    Threshold of components set to 1.000
    Threshold of method set to 0.25%
    Personal data has been read. 20 approximations mode.
    Gedmatch.Com
    EUtest 4-Ancestors Oracle
    This program is based on 4-Ancestors Oracle Version 0.96 by Alexandr Burnashev.
    Questions about results should be sent to him at: [email protected]
    Original concept proposed by Sergey Kozlov.
    Many thanks to Alexandr for helping us get this web version developed.

    EUtest Oracle population reference data revised 06 Nov 2012.

    Admix Results (sorted):

    # Population Percent
    1 ATLANTIC 29.96
    2 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 26.77
    3 SOUTH_BALTIC 12.91
    4 WEST_MED 10.57
    5 EAST_EURO 10.27
    6 WEST_ASIAN 4.44
    7 EAST_MED 2.47
    8 SOUTH_ASIAN 1.59


    Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Orcadian @ 2.572646
    2 Cornish @ 2.927963
    3 IE @ 2.939580
    4 Scottish @ 3.636564
    5 English @ 4.970222
    6 NL @ 5.760987
    7 West_&_Central_German @ 6.989939
    8 DK @ 7.561948
    9 NO @ 9.355514
    10 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 10.225418
    11 FR @ 12.779758
    12 North_Swedish @ 14.188993
    13 AT @ 14.855093
    14 HU @ 20.764002
    15 ES @ 21.047228
    16 PT @ 21.158691
    17 South_Finnish @ 23.622814
    18 Serbian @ 23.986607
    19 French_Basque @ 25.100336
    20 North_Italian @ 25.704790

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% Cornish +50% Scottish @ 1.968661


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% Cornish +25% Orcadian +25% Scottish @ 1.857162


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 Cornish + Cornish + Orcadian + Scottish @ 1.857162
    2 Cornish + Cornish + IE + Scottish @ 1.916898
    3 Cornish + NL + Scottish + Scottish @ 1.940600
    4 Cornish + Cornish + Scottish + Scottish @ 1.968661
    5 Cornish + Cornish + IE + Orcadian @ 1.979756
    6 Cornish + English + Scottish + Scottish @ 2.012911
    7 Cornish + Scottish + Scottish + West_&_Central_German @ 2.030463
    8 Cornish + English + IE + Scottish @ 2.040028
    9 Cornish + Cornish + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.049928
    10 Cornish + Cornish + IE + IE @ 2.053847
    11 Cornish + IE + NL + Scottish @ 2.059194
    12 Cornish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Scottish @ 2.062128
    13 Cornish + IE + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.097064
    14 Cornish + IE + Orcadian + Scottish @ 2.106331
    15 Cornish + English + Orcadian + Scottish @ 2.109261
    16 Cornish + Cornish + Cornish + Scottish @ 2.117296
    17 Cornish + Orcadian + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 2.133714
    18 Cornish + IE + Scottish + West_&_Central_German @ 2.159240
    19 Cornish + IE + IE + Orcadian @ 2.173518
    20 Cornish + NL + Orcadian + Scottish @ 2.174028

    Done.

    Elapsed time 0.0417 seconds.

    So would I be mistaken if I just identified as Scottish or a mix of Scottish or cornish even the it wouldn't be necessarily 100% exact given the my population distance with the average being 15 ? I mean traditionally the Irish have nothing in Common with the Germanics and while I recognize I have some Germanic heritage identifying as Scottish or Scottish+Cornish allows me to aknowledge my Germanic ancestry while still identifying as Anglo-Celtic.This could be selection bias on my part as I like the GEDmatch results better. Please I'm just trying to figure out my ethnicity and this is driving me a bit crazy here. I'm a newbie to all this stuff compared to some of you guys here so I could use some help, thanks in advance.

    P.S.

    BTW, if you guys want me to contrast k13 and k15 here I will but I don't see the point but maybe you could enlighten me if you need it.
    "Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence it will fade as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines."--Bertrand Russell

    "ah, yes, dear brutes-- but then we must also be ever vigilant against scientism since neolithic humans cannot do real science." --New Albion

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    Hmmm, that's really tough to answer. There are a lot of anglofied Irish people who think they are ethnically Brits and get surprised when they see DNA results showing otherwise. The same happens vice versa. Sounds like you're mostly from the British Isles which makes sense according to your rumored background.

    As far as your identity, a DNA test should never change that. You are who you are.

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    Quote Originally Posted by MyAnthropologies View Post
    Hmmm, that's really tough to answer. There are a lot of anglofied Irish people who think they are ethnically Brits and get surprised when they see DNA results showing otherwise. The same happens vice versa. Sounds like you're mostly from the British Isles which makes sense according to your rumored background.

    As far as your identity, a DNA test should never change that. You are who you are.
    Not to be rude but there seems to be some kind of liberal agenda against using these tests to identify primarily with one tribe or ethnicity. It won't change who am I am profoundly either way : I'll still identify as Anglo-Celtic rather than Anglo-Saxon. I just prefer the Scots and Cornish over the Irish because of the history of invention and science in these regions comparatively speaking. I'm not saying that means I am going to necessarily make any scientific breakthroughs or major inventions but still... the Scots etc.. are brother Gods of the Irish. Anyway, even if ancestryDNA is correct that could still mean I am like a highland Scot rather than Irish or a lowland Scot. Honestly, the true Irish should have nothing in common with the Germanics that is another reason why I have problems identifying as Irish. The companies like AncestryDNA seem to have a liberal agenda for not identifying with one tribe e.g. British, Scots, or German or whatever one's closest ethnic analogue may be.
    Last edited by NewAlbion; 08-16-2016 at 10:02 AM.
    "Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence it will fade as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines."--Bertrand Russell

    "ah, yes, dear brutes-- but then we must also be ever vigilant against scientism since neolithic humans cannot do real science." --New Albion

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    I think that much remains to be seen in regard to Irish genetics & admixture affinities to their neighbors & other NW populations. The most comprehensive British Au genetics project to date, People of British Isles Welcomme Trust study, included only N.
    Ireland. This region may be "corrupted", however, by Anglo Planters & Scottish Ulster. LOL! 😊 Although the Irish Atlas DNA project is still underway, preliminary results are yielding many similarities with Scottish and British in general. There have also been several fully Irish posting their Eurogenes K13 results showing primary matches with Dutch, sometimes higher than other British populations.

    Personally, however, I see some striking differences in cultural heritage, with Ireland offering some extraordinary music & literature traditions over perhaps a more pragmatic Scottish tradition.It will be interesting to see if DNA studies bridge the gap, or widen it. 😊

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    Quote Originally Posted by NewAlbion View Post
    Not to be rude but there seems to be some kind of liberal agenda against using these tests to identify primarily with one tribe or ethnicity. It won't change who am I am profoundly either way : I'll still identify as Anglo-Celtic rather than Anglo-Saxon. I just prefer the Scots and Cornish over the Irish because of the history of invention and science in these regions comparatively speaking. I'm not saying that means I am going to necessarily make any scientific breakthroughs or major inventions but still... the Scots etc.. are brother Gods of the Irish. Anyway, even if ancestryDNA is correct that could still mean I am like a highland Scot rather than Irish or a lowland Scot. Honestly, the true Irish should have nothing in common with the Germanics that is another reason why I have problems identifying as Irish. The companies like AncestryDNA seem to have a liberal agenda for not identifying with one tribe e.g. British, Scots, or German or whatever one's closest ethnic analogue may be.
    I would be more likely to go with what a company like Ancestry says or 23&Me. Gedmatch is just a secondary application that uses calculators to place you in populations closest to your results.

    I'm fully Irish and I've used all 3 companies.

    My results from Ancestry were

    91% Ireland
    Trace Regions
    3% Europe East
    2% Europe West
    1% Scandinavia
    1% European Jewish
    2% Great Britain (forgot to add this)

    Most people from the UK will get a percentage of Ireland in their results and it doesn't necessarily translate to actual Irish ancestry.

    My Eurogenes K13 however has my top population as North Dutch and I come out as 50% Norwegian. So while Gedmatch is usuful and entertaining it can't really be used in place of something like 23andMe, FTDNA or Ancestry. What people fail to realise is that whether people are "Celtic" or "Germanic" these are language groups and all people in Northwest Europe are very similar genetically. Regarding whether the Irish have contributed less to science is more down to historical reasons than genetics. A history book would be more informative in looking at reasons for why some populations had more opportunities than others in certain areas.
    Last edited by Jessie; 09-16-2016 at 05:56 AM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Jessie View Post
    I would be more likely to go with what a company like Ancestry says or 23&Me. Gedmatch is just a secondary application that uses calculators to place you in populations closest to your results.

    I'm fully Irish and I've used all 3 companies.

    My results from Ancestry were

    91% Ireland
    Trace Regions
    3% Europe East
    2% Europe West
    1% Scandinavia
    1% European Jewish

    Most people from the UK will get a percentage of Ireland in their results and it doesn't necessarily translate to actual Irish ancestry.

    My Eurogenes K13 however has my top population as North Dutch and I come out as 50% Norwegian. So while Gedmatch is usuful and entertaining it can't really be used in place of something like 23andMe, FTDNA or Ancestry. What people fail to realise is that whether people are "Celtic" or "Germanic" these are language groups and all people in Northwest Europe are very similar genetically. Regarding whether the Irish have contributed less to science is more down to historical reasons than genetics. A history book would be more informative in looking at reasons for why some populations had more opportunities than others in certain areas.
    Hi Jessie,

    I did my ancestryDNA test recently, and to my surprise my only non-trace regions were Britain at 73% and Ireland at 6%. I expected a much greater Irish component given my ancestors include many Gaelic / Highland Scottish as well as Welsh speaking people. My Gedmatch results for the ancestry kit are:

    # Population Percent
    1 ATLANTIC 27.26
    2 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 25.27
    3 SOUTH_BALTIC 14.91
    4 WEST_MED 12.13
    5 EAST_EURO 11.02
    6 WEST_ASIAN 6.34
    7 SIBERIAN 2.08


    Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Orcadian @ 5.320445
    2 IE @ 5.557007
    3 Cornish @ 5.909720
    4 NL @ 6.221287
    5 English @ 7.090277
    6 West_&_Central_German @ 7.103646
    7 Scottish @ 7.127876
    8 DK @ 8.676942
    9 NO @ 8.865813
    10 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 9.470847
    11 North_Swedish @ 12.807658
    12 AT @ 13.192289
    13 FR @ 13.201672
    14 HU @ 18.127720
    15 South_Finnish @ 21.391369
    16 PT @ 21.590019
    17 ES @ 21.643776
    18 Serbian @ 22.437931
    19 PL @ 23.638054
    20 North_Italian @ 25.269634

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% IE +50% NL @ 4.867750


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% IE +25% IE +25% West_&_Central_German @ 4.856452


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 HU + IE + IE + IE @ 4.142177
    2 HU + IE + IE + Scottish @ 4.266030
    3 AT + IE + IE + IE @ 4.293591
    4 HU + IE + IE + Orcadian @ 4.305387
    5 AT + IE + IE + Orcadian @ 4.401197
    6 HU + IE + Orcadian + Scottish @ 4.437197
    7 FR + IE + IE + North_Swedish @ 4.482569
    8 HU + IE + Scottish + Scottish @ 4.484679
    9 AT + IE + IE + Scottish @ 4.494554
    10 HU + IE + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 4.505452
    11 Cornish + HU + IE + IE @ 4.518355
    12 AT + IE + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 4.542547
    13 FR + IE + IE + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 4.571366
    14 FR + IE + North_Swedish + Scottish @ 4.606003
    15 Cornish + HU + IE + Scottish @ 4.611389
    16 AT + IE + Orcadian + Scottish @ 4.612475
    17 FR + IE + North_Swedish + Orcadian @ 4.627069
    18 AT + Cornish + IE + IE @ 4.627154
    19 HU + Orcadian + Orcadian + Scottish @ 4.644990
    20 English + HU + IE + IE @ 4.645694

    So while they're definitely not exact, our results seem similar enough that I figure I'd have at least a decent fraction of Irish showing on my ethnicity prediction. I'm writing this as support for the argument against AncestryDNA. (But don't get me wrong for some folks it seems fine, after all it did a great job with your prediction).

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    Quote Originally Posted by sktibo View Post
    Hi Jessie,

    I did my ancestryDNA test recently, and to my surprise my only non-trace regions were Britain at 73% and Ireland at 6%. I expected a much greater Irish component given my ancestors include many Gaelic / Highland Scottish as well as Welsh speaking people. My Gedmatch results for the ancestry kit are:

    # Population Percent
    1 ATLANTIC 27.26
    2 NORTH-CENTRAL_EURO 25.27
    3 SOUTH_BALTIC 14.91
    4 WEST_MED 12.13
    5 EAST_EURO 11.02
    6 WEST_ASIAN 6.34
    7 SIBERIAN 2.08


    Finished reading population data. 78 populations found.
    13 components mode.

    --------------------------------

    Least-squares method.

    Using 1 population approximation:
    1 Orcadian @ 5.320445
    2 IE @ 5.557007
    3 Cornish @ 5.909720
    4 NL @ 6.221287
    5 English @ 7.090277
    6 West_&_Central_German @ 7.103646
    7 Scottish @ 7.127876
    8 DK @ 8.676942
    9 NO @ 8.865813
    10 South_&_Central_Swedish @ 9.470847
    11 North_Swedish @ 12.807658
    12 AT @ 13.192289
    13 FR @ 13.201672
    14 HU @ 18.127720
    15 South_Finnish @ 21.391369
    16 PT @ 21.590019
    17 ES @ 21.643776
    18 Serbian @ 22.437931
    19 PL @ 23.638054
    20 North_Italian @ 25.269634

    Using 2 populations approximation:
    1 50% IE +50% NL @ 4.867750


    Using 3 populations approximation:
    1 50% IE +25% IE +25% West_&_Central_German @ 4.856452


    Using 4 populations approximation:
    1 HU + IE + IE + IE @ 4.142177
    2 HU + IE + IE + Scottish @ 4.266030
    3 AT + IE + IE + IE @ 4.293591
    4 HU + IE + IE + Orcadian @ 4.305387
    5 AT + IE + IE + Orcadian @ 4.401197
    6 HU + IE + Orcadian + Scottish @ 4.437197
    7 FR + IE + IE + North_Swedish @ 4.482569
    8 HU + IE + Scottish + Scottish @ 4.484679
    9 AT + IE + IE + Scottish @ 4.494554
    10 HU + IE + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 4.505452
    11 Cornish + HU + IE + IE @ 4.518355
    12 AT + IE + Orcadian + Orcadian @ 4.542547
    13 FR + IE + IE + South_&_Central_Swedish @ 4.571366
    14 FR + IE + North_Swedish + Scottish @ 4.606003
    15 Cornish + HU + IE + Scottish @ 4.611389
    16 AT + IE + Orcadian + Scottish @ 4.612475
    17 FR + IE + North_Swedish + Orcadian @ 4.627069
    18 AT + Cornish + IE + IE @ 4.627154
    19 HU + Orcadian + Orcadian + Scottish @ 4.644990
    20 English + HU + IE + IE @ 4.645694

    So while they're definitely not exact, our results seem similar enough that I figure I'd have at least a decent fraction of Irish showing on my ethnicity prediction. I'm writing this as support for the argument against AncestryDNA. (But don't get me wrong for some folks it seems fine, after all it did a great job with your prediction).
    I think sometimes people take the names of the components too literally. The Great Britain result doesn't translate to not having any "Celtic" or pre-Anglo-Saxon ancestry. You obviously have the bulk of your ancestry from the British Isles so the results are accurate. It is really difficult to separate some of these populations and a papertrail is always better IMO. You should look at the People of the British Isles study if you haven't already. It is very informative. I forgot to add the 2% Great Britain in my results. I'm going off memory as I can't access the info at the moment.
    Last edited by Jessie; 09-16-2016 at 06:10 AM.

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    Basically, GEDmatch Eutest is telling me what I want to hear and AncestryDNA is not.
    I am very doubtful that this is the way to approach things, ie ignoring that which doesn't fit in with what you want it to be.
    If you have a fixed idea of your ancestry then why do autosomal testing in the first place?

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    Quote Originally Posted by firemonkey View Post
    I am very doubtful that this is the way to approach things, ie ignoring that which doesn't fit in with what you want it to be.
    If you have a fixed idea of your ancestry then why do autosomal testing in the first place?
    True, but I've heard, online, so it may not be true, that of all the commerical testing companies AncestryDNA is the least accurate. Basically, they just want to sell you a subscription to the rest of the ancestry or geneology portion of their website and the testing is just a small part of what they do compared to other companies that are more or less dedicated to the DNA testing portion. It is easy to see their strategy it is like they know that many people testing are looking for small possibly unknown surprising parts of their ancestry like with me it says 6% or 8% Scandinavian but that is just nonsense the the 25% Orcadian 4 squared result, from GEDmatch, makes more sense since I know my father is Scottish ethnically and the Orkneys have significant Norse input etc... I think ancestryDNA is bullshit more or less just a marketing ploy. I mean I don't literally think on my maternal side that I'm cornish just that I have possibly a closer ethnic affinity to them than the Irish. The latter may or may not be true but what we do know is the real Irish should have nothing in common with the Germanics historically speaking or traditionally speaking.
    Last edited by NewAlbion; 08-16-2016 at 04:03 PM.
    "Religion is something left over from the infancy of our intelligence it will fade as we adopt reason and science as our guidelines."--Bertrand Russell

    "ah, yes, dear brutes-- but then we must also be ever vigilant against scientism since neolithic humans cannot do real science." --New Albion

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    Ancestry is garbage.

    52% continental? What a joke!

     



    Eurogenes nails it.

     

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