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Thread: Pict's - Who What When Where?

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    Pict's - Who What When Where?

    The Pict's, Who What When Where?

    There are several opinions each of the 4W's. Lets look at the evidence.

    What pieces of information are present or absent from the historical Scotland/Isle gene-pools?

    Which Haplogroup(s) in Scotland have the largest variances that would represent Pict's?

    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

  2. The Following User Says Thank You to MJost For This Useful Post:

     Ian B (11-27-2013)

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    I replied to this post that discusses relatively recent news regarding Picts:

    http://www.anthrogenica.com/showthre...by-BritainsDNA

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     Ian B (11-27-2013)

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    This is the exact reason for the need to discuss Picts overall.

    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

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    When-

    We know that the first indications of humans in Scotland occurring only after the ice retreated in the 11th millennium BC. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timelin...toric_Scotland

    Scotland then, had the presence of relatively large and well-organised hunter-gatherer societies that had a Mesolithic presence during the relatively warm period that lasted from c. 12,000-11,000 BC.

    Assuming these men were Mesolithic European I1 and I2a's?

    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

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    For now we can speculate whether men in these societies belonged to I1 or I2.

    The earliest human remains have been found in bog bodies
    http://news.nationalgeographic.com/n...cient-science/

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    These human remains are dated about 1K BC around the start of the Iron Age and from the later stage of the Bronze age. Most of the developements of human activity appear to start only 1K earlier at around 2000BC. Beaker Bell influences appeared and, some idea, that Celtic influences were introducing Iron Age metalwork. But the Bronze age brought an increased population. Prior, only HG I, G's and T guys may have been involved in the pre-bronze & into the Neolithic period. Found during the late Neolithic period were stone-built shelters and hearths, along with various types of Midden's. Scandinavian influenced? Red ochre has been found clear back to 6k BC, pre-curser to Picts usage.

    Anything new in the Neolithic archeology that could provide clues as to what HG was inhabiting the northern Isles?


    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

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    Even though the earlier land bridge between the continent and the isles fostered settlements, maintaining contact and communications, later maintaining contact between the isles was heavly dominated by sea travel during the Neolithic and Bronze ages. Interestingly, the Highlands show little activities overal.

    The Irish Sea in Prehistory, The Journal of Irish Archaeology, Vol. 6, 29-40 1993
    by J Waddell
    http://www.nuigalway.ie/archaeology/...prehistory.pdf


    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

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    Who-Just who was living in the area at the time when the nickname was used. As with everywhere they were just the sum total of all threads that had gone into the population of that area since human settlement began, speaking a Celtic language that probably arrived in the copper/bronze/iron ages. They spoke P-Celtic.

    What-Non-specific nickname based on those who were beyond the walls. Basic meaning non-Romanised Briton.

    When-c. 300AD-850AD

    Where-Scotland north of the Forth-Clyde line (after 500AD there heartland was restricted more to the eastern part of this area)

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    In reviewing what various haplogroups that were near the Britton Isle well before the Romans, we would have to consider that the distribution of haplogroup R1b in Europe was in its infancy around 3000 YBP. Were the I1, I2a, I2b's the main Native European Y-DNA haplogroups who may have better survivablity in these northern difficult climates or environments, regions like Brittany, Northern Brittany Dinaric Alps & Scandinavia? In addition to the E, G2 and R1a's via the Corded ware and BeakerBell

    Europedia Map of early Bronze Age cultures in Europe around 4,500 to 5,000 years ago
    http://www.eupedia.com/images/conten...pe_2500BCE.swf

    Were the 'Picts' mainly a group of I1, I2a, I2b, E, G2 and/or R1a people living in ancient eastern and northern Scotland in pre historical times?

    MJost
    148326, FGC-0FW1R, YSID6 & YF3272 R-DF13>FGC5494>*7448>*5496>*5521>*5511>*5539>*5538>* 5508>*5524
     
    Watterson USA GD1/67 & GD3/111, *5508+. GD1ís fatherís sister-23andme pred. 3rd Cous w/ 0.91% DNA shared-3 seg. Largest on Chr1 w/non-Euro admix affirms my NPE paternal Watterson line via aDNA & YDNA. A 2nd pred. 4th cous has same DKA b. 1840's Georgia and MDKA d 1703 IOM. 3rd Cousin FtDNA FF is from the Watterson Ala. *5538+ b. IOM w/ GD6/67 & GD8/111 -SGD3. FGC5539+ a Scot-Ross GD13/111 -SGD8

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    Quote Originally Posted by MJost View Post
    In reviewing what various haplogroups that were near the Britton Isle well before the Romans, we would have to consider that the distribution of haplogroup R1b in Europe was in its infancy around 3000 YBP. Were the I1, I2a, I2b's the main Native European Y-DNA haplogroups who may have better survivablity in these northern difficult climates or environments, regions like Brittany, Northern Brittany Dinaric Alps & Scandinavia? In addition to the E, G2 and R1a's via the Corded ware and BeakerBell

    Europedia Map of early Bronze Age cultures in Europe around 4,500 to 5,000 years ago
    http://www.eupedia.com/images/conten...pe_2500BCE.swf

    Were the 'Picts' mainly a group of I1, I2a, I2b, E, G2 and/or R1a people living in ancient eastern and northern Scotland in pre historical times?

    MJost
    The idea of the term Pict as an especially old or pre-Celtic people has been demolished since the 80s. Its just a nickname devised by outsiders at a 'snapshot' in time c. 300AD for the people of a certain area. The term Pictish didnt originally have the implication of some ancient strata. It was 19th and early-mid 20th century antiquarians and historians who fostered that idea. However, there was no sound basis to it.

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